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Original poster

SO upset - planning permission granted

229 replies

Bloomingpink2023 · 15/04/2023 07:31

Hello. Ive posted here as well as in legal for advice. I hope that’s ok. I am so so upset about this and feel so angry about this as the whole process just feels so underhand.

Yesterday, I was approached In a cafe on the street I live by a man asking if I lived at my address and what floor I lived on. He didn’t introduce himself or explain why he wanted to know. He then said he knew I lived there as he had seen me on my terrace!!! I declined to answer until he explained that he was the owner (freeholder) of the entire building next door.

he wanted my contact details and my freeholder’s. Said he was planning an extension and loft conversion and needed to discuss a party wall with us.

I said you won’t get permission as you’ll block my light and he told me he had already been granted permission. I thought he must be lying as I was never notified or consulted about this and I’ve never seen anything.

I went home and he was awarded it! I called up the council (London council) and it turns out they no longer have to inform neighbours directly. They said they placed a press notice in a local newspaper (which is not my local newspaper in any case for my area) which I should apparently be reading?? They also said they put a site notice up. When I asked where that was, the officer couldn’t say. I never saw any site notice although I walk up and down my street multiple times a day.

I asked if I could appeal it and the officer said there was nothing I could do now as it was granted. I could only oppose it on a point of law on procedure if I believed the process hadn’t been followed correctly and I would have to appeal it in the High Court in the Royal Courts of Justice. I’m not sure I can even do that, as the permission was granted 8 weeks ago.

I’m deeply deeply upset about this. The proposed extension will block off most of the light into my kitchen and bedroom. It will also mean I am overlooked on my terrace and in my kitchen. And it will also kill off a number of climbing plants that are growing up the trellis which is on my boundary line where they are proposing a massive wall.

I’m just so upset and wondering if there is anything I can do. I just hate how underhand and sneaky the whole thing has been. The council officer did say it was suspicious for this neighbour to approach me to agree works after it the permission was granted and it wasn’t the normal way he would’ve done it but then said it’s a flawed system and he’s had similar complaints.

I feel like this neighbour has been allowed to hide behind the new process of this council not to inform me directly, and has deliberately done this knowing I can not challenge it.

I know my neighbour clearly wants to start work soon which is why he wants to issue this party wall notice.

please please could someone let me know if I have any way of challenging this or what I could do.

I cannot believe the council never wrote to me once given how I will be impacted but apparently that’s their process now and it would seem there’s nothing I can do about this.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
jotunn · 15/04/2023 10:21

@Wavinggoodbyetoo

"Planning has been granted, even with this report the OP would need a Judicial review. The ombudsman could instruct compensation from the local authority, but cannot retract."

A right of light is a separate property right. It doesn't get automatically discharged by planning permission. The op may be able to delay te development next door or receive compensation for the breach of her right of light. A specialist RoL surveyor will be able to advise her.

CalpolDependant · 15/04/2023 10:21

Hi OP, this situation sounds awful, I’m so sorry.

My response is from experience, but coming from the other side. We obtained PP to put up a new summerhouse on a bit of our land that we don’t use. (It was within what would normally be permitted dev but I live in an AONB). A person we share no actual borders with but who’s own garden touches ours at a point didn’t get notified. (My council didn’t deem this to be a border, as defined by English law).

The neighbour feels that, on principle, our summer house should be “torn down” because they were not consulted. They went full throttle and have attempted to appeal all the way up to the high court. It didn’t achieve a thing. The appeal didn’t even get heard. They’ve probably spent more money on it all than our summer house is even worth. (And we’ve lost their friendship in the process)

Now, your situation sounds much worse than some 6ft summerhouse, but my experience is that nobody wants to “unmake” a decision that is now made. I think appealing will be very tough and likely unsuccessful. I’m so sorry again. Xx

Loudhousefun · 15/04/2023 10:22

Move

pottydimley · 15/04/2023 10:26

Will it also impact on other leaseholders in your block? It might be worth taking any shared action with them.

IhearyouClemFandango · 15/04/2023 10:27

People.dont have to notify neighbours surely? I get that it is a nice thing to do, but if the neighbour has applied through the proper channels, and the council then followed their procedure but the OP didn't see the notice in the paper/pinned up then there hasn't been any wrongdoing?

Wavinggoodbyetoo · 15/04/2023 10:27

jotunn · 15/04/2023 10:21

@Wavinggoodbyetoo

"Planning has been granted, even with this report the OP would need a Judicial review. The ombudsman could instruct compensation from the local authority, but cannot retract."

A right of light is a separate property right. It doesn't get automatically discharged by planning permission. The op may be able to delay te development next door or receive compensation for the breach of her right of light. A specialist RoL surveyor will be able to advise her.

Right to light is about the level of a candle at 1m, I can assure you planning very rarely going to reduce levels to that extent.

She would still need to go to court and fund that.

Theory is one thing, reality another.
Not a chance.

VegetablesFightingToReclaimTheAubergieneEmoji · 15/04/2023 10:29

malapast · 15/04/2023 10:15

For some reason this has the smell of funny handshakes - planning is by far the worse for this.

It’s the same in our council.
meant to knock down that old house and build flats, it’s fine. You don’t need to alert the neighbours.
want to build up ontop of your house, so it’s like a travelodge.
you don’t need to alert the neighbours

they used to put signs up, but they just got ripped down.

whynotwhatknot · 15/04/2023 10:30

my friend and her neighbours objected to a block of flats being built right next door-apprently there is no right to light anymore

allneighbours ojected it still went through

tenthavenue · 15/04/2023 10:31

Very sorry OP this must have come as a massive shock and that element of it is very unfair. Also your neighbour approaching you like that is not on.
However, change is part of life and it might not be as bad as you think after all is said and done. We had an extension next door and I hated it but after a while I got used to it and now it doesn’t bother me at all.

ReadersD1gest · 15/04/2023 10:33

Very sorry OP this must have come as a massive shock and that element of it is very unfair. Also your neighbour approaching you like that is not on
Whist I have every sympathy for op, the neighbour has done nothing wrong here. It's how it works.

Itakecreaminmycoffee · 15/04/2023 10:35

Bloomingpink2023 · 15/04/2023 08:09

I think the point is that if the process is about consulting with people, then the polite and ethical thing would be to have let me know before the application was granted so I could discuss my concerns.

it obviously suits him to alert me to this 8 weeks after the application has been granted when he knows there is little I can do.

Show quote history

It sounds to me like there's been some kind of back-hander going on - I've seen this before, outrageous planning permission is swiftly dealt with when before no one had ever been allowed to put anything similar anywhere.
It happened with our neighbours across the road (conservation area), they partitioned off their garden, sold their house and then built a brand spanking new huge house in the garden for themselves, partly blocking our view of the sea - no conversation with us, no letter, no posters. Turned out later from some digging that the woman in the couple has a brother on the planning committee! We ended up not challenging it as it was such a long drawn out and expensive process as the permission had already been granted.

There is a lot of dodgy stuff that goes on with planning imo - it's often who you know. It's a difficult one because you're in London and obviously space is at a premium - I doubt they'll care much about a few peoples plants being denied sunlight when a developer is coming along and spending a lot of money on a new block of flats.

My sympathies though, it's rubbish and I understand the utter shock and disappointment you'll be feeling.

EastAngle · 15/04/2023 10:35

It doesn’t sound as if the council have done anything wrong. If they put a site notice up and published the application on their website.

For future reference, planning applications are all public. Sign up for alerts on your local council’s website and you will receive an email every time there is an application within the area

Wafflesandcrepes · 15/04/2023 10:36

Happened to us but we caught it in time, before approval was granted. It was a massive application with the developer wanting to dig very, very deep in an unstable hill metres from my neighbour’s house. The council didn’t think it necessary to inform neighbours or put an on-site notice 🙄. We kicked up a massive stink, called all councillors in the area, letter to MP etc…

The Council now informs us when something is going on.

But now that permission has been granted, it seems more difficult. Speak to a lawyer and surveyor.

LakieLady · 15/04/2023 10:36

PleaseJustText · 15/04/2023 09:29

I'm surprised councils are hiding applications like that. We were informed by post when a neighbour applied earlier this year in Bedfordshire. They weren't a particularly close neighbour either. They live across a fairly wide road and several doors down.

I don't think my council sends out letters anymore.

The family across the road have been granted planning permission for a wide 2-storey side extension that will go almost up to their boundary. They're in the end house, so that boundary abuts the bottom of the garden of the house round the corner. The people in that house are really pissed off about it.

Afiak no-one got a letter, there was a notice on a lamp post in our road, but nothing in the road round the corner. I was a bit surprised, tbh, it's only a few years since they had a detached annexe built in the garden.

MandyMotherOfBrian · 15/04/2023 10:41

Schnooze · 15/04/2023 10:03

Do you have to legally agree to a party wall? I’m assuming you do, but how annoying.

OP can object, which triggers a dispute process. But OP would have to appoint a surveyor and the process could get quite expensive and drawn out and the end result would probably be that a party wall agreement is granted anyway.

jotunn · 15/04/2023 10:43

@Wavinggoodbyetoo

A right of light is separate to planning. Planning will take account if loss of sunlight and daylight if it is raised during the planning process.

Failure to do so, especially with the lack of consultation may possibly have been a judicial review point but the op is out of time. Even if she was allowed to proceed with a judicial review the costs would be very significant and not really worthwhile - the council would have to take the decision again, but there is no guarantee they'd come to a different conclusion- maybe just a better consulted and reasoned one but that's not much to get for a considerable financial outlay.

The property right of light is separate. It is nothing to do with the local authority and not affect the planning permission. It may (may being very important here) impact the developer's ability to build out the planning permission. That is why the op may wish to consider consulting a rights of light surveyor.

ReadersD1gest · 15/04/2023 10:43

You can't stave off the process by refusing to sign a party wall agreement. It's for op's benefit anyway, not the builder's.

LakieLady · 15/04/2023 10:51

Itakecreaminmycoffee · 15/04/2023 10:35

It sounds to me like there's been some kind of back-hander going on - I've seen this before, outrageous planning permission is swiftly dealt with when before no one had ever been allowed to put anything similar anywhere.
It happened with our neighbours across the road (conservation area), they partitioned off their garden, sold their house and then built a brand spanking new huge house in the garden for themselves, partly blocking our view of the sea - no conversation with us, no letter, no posters. Turned out later from some digging that the woman in the couple has a brother on the planning committee! We ended up not challenging it as it was such a long drawn out and expensive process as the permission had already been granted.

There is a lot of dodgy stuff that goes on with planning imo - it's often who you know. It's a difficult one because you're in London and obviously space is at a premium - I doubt they'll care much about a few peoples plants being denied sunlight when a developer is coming along and spending a lot of money on a new block of flats.

My sympathies though, it's rubbish and I understand the utter shock and disappointment you'll be feeling.

Show quote history

I was clerk to a council's planning committee for several years. The presumption is always in favour of development unless there are compelling reasons to the contrary. Because there is such a shortage of housing, it is very hard to find reasons that are sufficiently compelling to outweigh the argument of housing need.

There have been some really awful developments where I live over the last few years, despite the whole historic town centre being a conservation area, lack of parking, poor public transport, oversubscribed schools, dreadful traffic congestion, pressure on GP services etc. Every single one was allowed because of the overriding need for homes.

The council's one concession to a couple of recent developments was to to get a clause that people living in a couple of the developments will never be eligible for residents' parking permits (which has caused no end of problems where I live, just outside the controlled parking zone, as the fuckers come and park their cars up here instead).

Wavinggoodbyetoo · 15/04/2023 10:53

jotunn · 15/04/2023 10:43

@Wavinggoodbyetoo

A right of light is separate to planning. Planning will take account if loss of sunlight and daylight if it is raised during the planning process.

Failure to do so, especially with the lack of consultation may possibly have been a judicial review point but the op is out of time. Even if she was allowed to proceed with a judicial review the costs would be very significant and not really worthwhile - the council would have to take the decision again, but there is no guarantee they'd come to a different conclusion- maybe just a better consulted and reasoned one but that's not much to get for a considerable financial outlay.

The property right of light is separate. It is nothing to do with the local authority and not affect the planning permission. It may (may being very important here) impact the developer's ability to build out the planning permission. That is why the op may wish to consider consulting a rights of light surveyor.

Yes indeed, it’s a civil matter.

You make no reference to how high the bar is. As it is VERY high, the likelihood of success is very low.

Lots of companies will take OP’s money, but that’s all they are likely to achieve.

LIZS · 15/04/2023 11:00

The planning documents online should show who were the consultees and any responses.

DomPom47 · 15/04/2023 11:05

I d say contact your local newspaper and if that fails somewhere like the Daily Mail, not sure if it would do anything but free compared to getting lawyers involved and asking for a judicial review etc….

LIZS · 15/04/2023 11:08

There is an ombudsman if you think the LA has not followed its own processes and consulted those affected. Cheaper option than a Judicial Review.

ShanghaiDiva · 15/04/2023 11:16

I am surprised you weren’t informed by the planning office. Last week I received a letter advising that my neighbour was planning an extension. Did the freeholder receive any information?

Littlewhitecat · 15/04/2023 11:17

A JR will only look at whether the process has been followed and not the outcome. It sounds like the OP is out of time but even if they weren't JRs are incredibly expensive and if you lose you can be liable for the other sides costs as well. It is not something to undertake lightly. Right to light is also a complete non starter. I'd speak to the owner of the building and see what they think and if the OP is really upset I'd look to move.

McSleepy · 15/04/2023 11:17

I agree with previous posters about a right to light claim. This is separate to the planning process but can still prevent development. If the light into your flat will genuinely be obstructed by the development then you should have a claim which could either be for damages or potentially an injunction to prevent the works from being carried out. Do you have legal expenses cover as part of your insurance - that would be the first port of call but if not, you’ll need a solicitor and rights to light surveyor.