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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

SO upset - planning permission granted

229 replies

Bloomingpink2023 · 15/04/2023 07:31

Hello. Ive posted here as well as in legal for advice. I hope that’s ok. I am so so upset about this and feel so angry about this as the whole process just feels so underhand.

Yesterday, I was approached In a cafe on the street I live by a man asking if I lived at my address and what floor I lived on. He didn’t introduce himself or explain why he wanted to know. He then said he knew I lived there as he had seen me on my terrace!!! I declined to answer until he explained that he was the owner (freeholder) of the entire building next door.

he wanted my contact details and my freeholder’s. Said he was planning an extension and loft conversion and needed to discuss a party wall with us.

I said you won’t get permission as you’ll block my light and he told me he had already been granted permission. I thought he must be lying as I was never notified or consulted about this and I’ve never seen anything.

I went home and he was awarded it! I called up the council (London council) and it turns out they no longer have to inform neighbours directly. They said they placed a press notice in a local newspaper (which is not my local newspaper in any case for my area) which I should apparently be reading?? They also said they put a site notice up. When I asked where that was, the officer couldn’t say. I never saw any site notice although I walk up and down my street multiple times a day.

I asked if I could appeal it and the officer said there was nothing I could do now as it was granted. I could only oppose it on a point of law on procedure if I believed the process hadn’t been followed correctly and I would have to appeal it in the High Court in the Royal Courts of Justice. I’m not sure I can even do that, as the permission was granted 8 weeks ago.

I’m deeply deeply upset about this. The proposed extension will block off most of the light into my kitchen and bedroom. It will also mean I am overlooked on my terrace and in my kitchen. And it will also kill off a number of climbing plants that are growing up the trellis which is on my boundary line where they are proposing a massive wall.

I’m just so upset and wondering if there is anything I can do. I just hate how underhand and sneaky the whole thing has been. The council officer did say it was suspicious for this neighbour to approach me to agree works after it the permission was granted and it wasn’t the normal way he would’ve done it but then said it’s a flawed system and he’s had similar complaints.

I feel like this neighbour has been allowed to hide behind the new process of this council not to inform me directly, and has deliberately done this knowing I can not challenge it.

I know my neighbour clearly wants to start work soon which is why he wants to issue this party wall notice.

please please could someone let me know if I have any way of challenging this or what I could do.

I cannot believe the council never wrote to me once given how I will be impacted but apparently that’s their process now and it would seem there’s nothing I can do about this.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
WoollyRosebud · 15/04/2023 13:35

MandyMotherOfBrian · 15/04/2023 10:41

OP can object, which triggers a dispute process. But OP would have to appoint a surveyor and the process could get quite expensive and drawn out and the end result would probably be that a party wall agreement is granted anyway.

Show quote history

The OP should be appointing their own surveyor regardIng the Party Wall. They will check the condition of the wall prior to work starting and once complete. Any damage then will involve compensation. The cost of a surveyor is born by the person having the building work done not the OP. Incidentally don’t agree to have the same surveyor as they will be working for the interests of the neighbour not you. If the extension is going to be right up to the boundary this will probably involve digging foundations on your land OP, don’t allow this as should you wish to have your own similar extension in the future it will cause problems. You also don’t have to agree to the workmen being on your property.

You may not be able to stop the work taking place but you can protect your own property.

EastAngle · 15/04/2023 13:49

Ha! No way is a national newspaper going to be interested in this. In terms of planning disputes they report on things like permission for the travellers site next to Martin Clunes place and the Robbie Williams/Jimmy Page saga.

Shame for the OP but the council put up a site notice, they carried out their obligations. Stories about neighbours being unhappy about neighbouring developments are 10 a penny.

Original poster
Bloomingpink2023 · 15/04/2023 13:50

Thank you everyone for your advice. It’s really helpful. I’m going to look at contacting a specialist right to light surveyor.

my kitchen has a dining area which is right next to the window which will now be fully blocked. My fear as well is that at a later date he will build on top of the extension further blocking any light.

I know it’s of no use, and some will disagree, but I am just so angry and upset at the way this has been done. There’s not much green space and I have really valued having my plants and the light coming into my flat for the last three years. This will massively affect and erode both of those things.

When I looked at the planning application, he stated this would create spacious flats needed in this borough for young vibrant couples. (To be honest what is needed is more affordable housing. This won’t be it) the irony of it is is that the one group who knew about it and objected to it last year, a conservation group, did so on the grounds that his initial proposals were below the minimum required for habitable living space.

OP posts:
Original poster
Bloomingpink2023 · 15/04/2023 13:52

Also my building/ flat has had the current right to light for over 40 years. I have a roof terrace, legally demised and is on my lease and property deeds. The neighbour has a flat roof which he is extending on to.

in his plans of the layout of his property, mine and the adjacent property to him, my roof terrace looks like it could be just a flat roof. It is not clear or specified that this is a living space. So I’m not sure if the council realised I would be overlooked/light blocked.

OP posts:
SweetSakura · 15/04/2023 13:52

If that's correct you should hopefully be entitled to substantial compensation, and it's possible you might be able to stop the works.

It doesn't matter that they have planning permission, private rights are separate and have to be resolved too.

I have heard of whole developments failing because of rights of light claims.

SweetSakura · 15/04/2023 13:54

The planning permission doesn't really look at private rights. So someone can get planning permission for a development and then need to negotiate all sorts of rights of acces /light with neighbouring owners, they are separate regimes

DrPrunesqualler · 15/04/2023 13:56

Bloomingpink2023 · 15/04/2023 13:50

Thank you everyone for your advice. It’s really helpful. I’m going to look at contacting a specialist right to light surveyor.

my kitchen has a dining area which is right next to the window which will now be fully blocked. My fear as well is that at a later date he will build on top of the extension further blocking any light.

I know it’s of no use, and some will disagree, but I am just so angry and upset at the way this has been done. There’s not much green space and I have really valued having my plants and the light coming into my flat for the last three years. This will massively affect and erode both of those things.

When I looked at the planning application, he stated this would create spacious flats needed in this borough for young vibrant couples. (To be honest what is needed is more affordable housing. This won’t be it) the irony of it is is that the one group who knew about it and objected to it last year, a conservation group, did so on the grounds that his initial proposals were below the minimum required for habitable living space.

OP are there other windows to the rooms you say are being blocked.
Or are there just single windows the other window not affected
This is crucial.

DrPrunesqualler · 15/04/2023 13:58

SweetSakura · 15/04/2023 13:54

The planning permission doesn't really look at private rights. So someone can get planning permission for a development and then need to negotiate all sorts of rights of acces /light with neighbouring owners, they are separate regimes

It’s part of the application.
Planners need to consider affects on neighbouring properties often using BSE standards and BS codes.
Mind you some don’t have time and won’t check if neighbours property is not identified on the drawings.
Thats why neighbours need to put in objections.
It highlights the issue for the planners.

EsmeSusanOgg · 15/04/2023 13:58

Bloomingpink2023 · 15/04/2023 08:09

I think the point is that if the process is about consulting with people, then the polite and ethical thing would be to have let me know before the application was granted so I could discuss my concerns.

it obviously suits him to alert me to this 8 weeks after the application has been granted when he knows there is little I can do.

Show quote history

You can hold him up and insist that a party wall agreement (including surveyors) is drawn up, rather than simply agreeing to it straight away. That agreement will likly be granted, but can include provisions like replacing your plants etc.

Kennykenkencat · 15/04/2023 13:59

My neighbouring property was sold to a developer who put in for planning permission for a 2 storey extension which went straight across my living room window

I objected under the right to light piece of planning legislation and was told that they didn’t take any notice of that

The planning permission was granted

I spent 10 years trying to get my own planning application through.

A bizarre and horrible process which when I told anyone, no one believed me until a couple of years after I had given up the whole planning team was fired after a home owner successfully sued the planning dept for demolishing his whole house during the appeals process to let the roof height (a few cms over the planned height) stand.
Home owner won the appeal but by that time his home and possessions were rubble

LIZS · 15/04/2023 14:00

Have you read the officer's report. Might they have taken your rtl into account in the decision, even without your input. Was it passed by the delegated officer or did it go to a committee?

SweetSakura · 15/04/2023 14:01

DrPrunesqualler · 15/04/2023 13:58

It’s part of the application.
Planners need to consider affects on neighbouring properties often using BSE standards and BS codes.
Mind you some don’t have time and won’t check if neighbours property is not identified on the drawings.
Thats why neighbours need to put in objections.
It highlights the issue for the planners.

Show quote history

Yes,.light is relevant to the planning application. But that is a separate measure and assessment from rights of light under property law. So getting planning permission does not mean op's private law rights aren't being breached.

You can get planning permission for something that is going to require multiple negotiations with other landowners before you can actually commence development.

DrPrunesqualler · 15/04/2023 14:02

DrPrunesqualler · 15/04/2023 13:56

OP are there other windows to the rooms you say are being blocked.
Or are there just single windows the other window not affected
This is crucial.

Show quote history

PS. Is this a single story extension
How far away from your window will the extension be.

If it’s single story it’s highly likely there will be no substantial loss. Two story is a different matter, depending on distance.

As an aside and relating to party wall awards.
Can I suggest you ask all new foundations are hand dug. Vibrations from machinery can cause damage to foundations which may not immediately be noticeable at the end of the works.

mybeautifuloak · 15/04/2023 14:02

I think the neighbour just followed process. I don't think there is any indication that they have been sneaky. People generally do the least they have to. It's not sneaky. It's just normal to follow the standard procedure. But I am sorry for your current position.

Albiboba · 15/04/2023 14:04

@Bloomingpink2023 So I’m not sure if the council realised I would be overlooked/light blocked.

OP you can’t really complain that your roof terrace will be overlooked when your terrace will literally be overlooking neighbouring gardens too.

BonnieLisbon · 15/04/2023 14:07

This sort of thing is really upsetting for people. It's terrible that you weren't notified

BonnieLisbon · 15/04/2023 14:08

Just to add that just because something is legal it doesn't mean its ethical

ChickenDhansak82 · 15/04/2023 14:10

Bloomingpink2023 · 15/04/2023 13:50

Thank you everyone for your advice. It’s really helpful. I’m going to look at contacting a specialist right to light surveyor.

my kitchen has a dining area which is right next to the window which will now be fully blocked. My fear as well is that at a later date he will build on top of the extension further blocking any light.

I know it’s of no use, and some will disagree, but I am just so angry and upset at the way this has been done. There’s not much green space and I have really valued having my plants and the light coming into my flat for the last three years. This will massively affect and erode both of those things.

When I looked at the planning application, he stated this would create spacious flats needed in this borough for young vibrant couples. (To be honest what is needed is more affordable housing. This won’t be it) the irony of it is is that the one group who knew about it and objected to it last year, a conservation group, did so on the grounds that his initial proposals were below the minimum required for habitable living space.

There is a really good housing section on the MoneySavingExpert website forum, so it might be worth posting on there.

Other than that, I suggest getting legal advice on this!

Is there anyone else in your block that would also help you fight this?

BonnieLisbon · 15/04/2023 14:11

Eg. If I lived on a road with on street parking only. I could fill up every single space along the kerb with a collection of cars so no other neighbours could park there. That would not be illegal but it would still be unethical. Same as not notifying people of planning so they can't object

SweetSakura · 15/04/2023 14:12

ChickenDhansak82 · 15/04/2023 14:10

There is a really good housing section on the MoneySavingExpert website forum, so it might be worth posting on there.

Other than that, I suggest getting legal advice on this!

Is there anyone else in your block that would also help you fight this?

Show quote history

Each person in the block may want to consider whether they have a right of light claim. The compensation amounts once there are multiple claimants can be significant and can make a development unviable.

But it is perfectly reasonable and right to make a claim- the property development is impacting on your home,.your property, it's right that they should compensate you accordingly

msmatcha · 15/04/2023 14:18

Your only hope here is that your freeholder hasn't been contacted for their consent.

Wavinggoodbyetoo · 15/04/2023 14:19

’a certain amount of overlooking should be expected in urban areas’

that’s what you’d be told

Original poster
Bloomingpink2023 · 15/04/2023 14:25

msmatcha · 15/04/2023 14:18

Your only hope here is that your freeholder hasn't been contacted for their consent.

He definitely hasn’t and is opposing it too. But I am worried not much can be done.

OP posts:
Original poster
Bloomingpink2023 · 15/04/2023 14:30

DrPrunesqualler · 15/04/2023 13:56

OP are there other windows to the rooms you say are being blocked.
Or are there just single windows the other window not affected
This is crucial.

Show quote history

There is one massive window which the dining area is right next to that is being blocked.

there is another much smaller single window which is not. He is building right up to that smaller window. I assume he thinks that will get round it/will be enough light.

OP posts:
Wavinggoodbyetoo · 15/04/2023 14:30

OP have they breached the 45 degree rule on the plans?