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Original poster

SO upset - planning permission granted

229 replies

Bloomingpink2023 · 15/04/2023 07:31

Hello. Ive posted here as well as in legal for advice. I hope that’s ok. I am so so upset about this and feel so angry about this as the whole process just feels so underhand.

Yesterday, I was approached In a cafe on the street I live by a man asking if I lived at my address and what floor I lived on. He didn’t introduce himself or explain why he wanted to know. He then said he knew I lived there as he had seen me on my terrace!!! I declined to answer until he explained that he was the owner (freeholder) of the entire building next door.

he wanted my contact details and my freeholder’s. Said he was planning an extension and loft conversion and needed to discuss a party wall with us.

I said you won’t get permission as you’ll block my light and he told me he had already been granted permission. I thought he must be lying as I was never notified or consulted about this and I’ve never seen anything.

I went home and he was awarded it! I called up the council (London council) and it turns out they no longer have to inform neighbours directly. They said they placed a press notice in a local newspaper (which is not my local newspaper in any case for my area) which I should apparently be reading?? They also said they put a site notice up. When I asked where that was, the officer couldn’t say. I never saw any site notice although I walk up and down my street multiple times a day.

I asked if I could appeal it and the officer said there was nothing I could do now as it was granted. I could only oppose it on a point of law on procedure if I believed the process hadn’t been followed correctly and I would have to appeal it in the High Court in the Royal Courts of Justice. I’m not sure I can even do that, as the permission was granted 8 weeks ago.

I’m deeply deeply upset about this. The proposed extension will block off most of the light into my kitchen and bedroom. It will also mean I am overlooked on my terrace and in my kitchen. And it will also kill off a number of climbing plants that are growing up the trellis which is on my boundary line where they are proposing a massive wall.

I’m just so upset and wondering if there is anything I can do. I just hate how underhand and sneaky the whole thing has been. The council officer did say it was suspicious for this neighbour to approach me to agree works after it the permission was granted and it wasn’t the normal way he would’ve done it but then said it’s a flawed system and he’s had similar complaints.

I feel like this neighbour has been allowed to hide behind the new process of this council not to inform me directly, and has deliberately done this knowing I can not challenge it.

I know my neighbour clearly wants to start work soon which is why he wants to issue this party wall notice.

please please could someone let me know if I have any way of challenging this or what I could do.

I cannot believe the council never wrote to me once given how I will be impacted but apparently that’s their process now and it would seem there’s nothing I can do about this.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
DrPrunesqualler · 15/04/2023 12:07

Wavinggoodbyetoo · 15/04/2023 11:59

So what though? The Ombudsman can’t remove approved plans. If there is a breach they MAY award the OP compensation, but more likely conclude planning would have been granted anyway and rap them on the knuckles.

Show quote history

The Ombudsman can ask for changes to the design to reduce the impact.
As nothing has been built yet this still is possible.
You can complain to an Ombudsmen up to 12 months after approval, but it would be expensive and pointless if the building was already built.
So it must be done soon. Preferably before works start.

RestingMurderousFace · 15/04/2023 12:08

Doubt your opposition would’ve made a blind bit of difference anyway, it didn’t when the twat next door built a fucking metropolis on the back of his Manchester terrace.

Move now, would be my advice.

user1471556818 · 15/04/2023 12:09

Get legal advice ASAP
Seems nowadays that people can do just about anything and nothing neighbours can do whatever the impact is

Seeline · 15/04/2023 12:10

DrPrunesqualler · 15/04/2023 12:00

This is wrong.
Im an architect as is my husband with over 70 years experience between us.
Applications have been refused on the basis of light. Depending on the severity and whether it’s the only source of light to a habitable room.
This does not include your right to a view, no one has this.

Most applicants will revise the design to reduce loss in order to get the application through.

Councils have a duty to post planning applications to immediate neighbours. They do not necessarily have to put a notice on a lamppost etc nearby if they also put the notice in the local papers. But this in itself is under review.

Show quote history

It's not wrong. I'm a planner with over 30 years experience. I didn't say PP couldn't be refused on loss of light it can be. I said it's very different from the RtL legislation - and separate from it too.
And for most extension type applications, letters to neighbours do not have to be sent - a site notice is fine - as long as the Council do not say that letters to neighbours is their normal procedure.

DrPrunesqualler · 15/04/2023 12:19

Seeline · 15/04/2023 12:10

It's not wrong. I'm a planner with over 30 years experience. I didn't say PP couldn't be refused on loss of light it can be. I said it's very different from the RtL legislation - and separate from it too.
And for most extension type applications, letters to neighbours do not have to be sent - a site notice is fine - as long as the Council do not say that letters to neighbours is their normal procedure.

Show quote history

An Ombudsman can use the lack of notification to immediate neighbours as a reason to review.
The lack of notification is valid.

And once again, it’s to do with severity of loss.
Has the applicant provided rights of light drawings and so on, we don’t know
It’s worth the OP knowing this.
The Ombudsman can ask for changes to the design to reduce the severity.
OP needs to know next steps if she’s prepared to take the matter further.

There are next steps available even though permission has been granted.

If you disagree, then we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

Jaxhog · 15/04/2023 12:19

I know it's too late for the OP, but it's worth signing up for the planning alert service https://planning.org.uk/ This will notify you if anyone submits a planning application near you. Much better than relying on your council to notify you.

Jaxhog · 15/04/2023 12:21

It's free for anything within 1/4 mile too, which is enough for most of us.

Wavinggoodbyetoo · 15/04/2023 12:21

DrPrunesqualler · 15/04/2023 12:19

An Ombudsman can use the lack of notification to immediate neighbours as a reason to review.
The lack of notification is valid.

And once again, it’s to do with severity of loss.
Has the applicant provided rights of light drawings and so on, we don’t know
It’s worth the OP knowing this.
The Ombudsman can ask for changes to the design to reduce the severity.
OP needs to know next steps if she’s prepared to take the matter further.

There are next steps available even though permission has been granted.

If you disagree, then we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

Show quote history
  • the development is not yet built or completed, it may be possible to agree minor changes to the scheme such as alterations to the opening of windows or doors or the provision of obscure glazing or an acoustic screen. This may not be possible, in which case we may ask a council to make you a payment to cover the cost of new planting or screening on your property.
  • If mitigation of the effects of the flawed decision is not possible, and it is clear that if there had been no fault the planning application would not have been approved, we may recommend a financial payment to remedy any loss of amenity.
  • Where we find fault with the council’s procedures we will often recommend that the council introduces changes so that the same problem does not occur again in the future.

Minor changes. I can see word in itself as a court case.

Monster80 · 15/04/2023 12:23

You absolutely can request security for expenses in the event that your property is damaged: https://www.securityforexpenses.co.uk/faqs/

Frequently Asked Questions

Information on using the Security for Expenses service.

https://www.securityforexpenses.co.uk/faqs/

LadyLapsang · 15/04/2023 12:32

@Bloomingpink2023 I really feel for you. The planning process is not fit for purpose. We live on a small private road in London which had eight houses. A developer bought one of the houses and despite all the neighbours objecting and the Council initially refusing permission and the local Councillors speaking on our behalf, he kept appealing until he won permission to split the house into two houses. He then installed a young relative and partner who went back to the council and said they were planning to start a family and wanted to extend the new house (no children have materialised to date and she told him the only family they wanted was their dog!)The developer rents the other house to a lovely family who pay full council tax but the house next door with the relative installed, now almost as big as all the other houses, is still rated as Band A. I contacted the Council as the very least that should happed is both new houses pay a fair amount of Council Tax, but no, as it is still owned by the developer it is legal for him to pay Band A on a three storey house; if he sells, and only then, will it be revalued.

SecretSwirrel · 15/04/2023 12:34

This is awful. What are the government hoping to achieve in not sharing potential building plans with immediate neighbours?

My neighbours did some building works which started Jan 23 and we we’re definitely informed.

SchoolTripDrama · 15/04/2023 12:42

Whatabouteverything · 15/04/2023 08:16

As above. Move before the work starts. Fight the party wall notice as much as possible. Say you've seen bees/bats/wild boards nesting and they need to get that checked out. Just fight everything you can now without going down the expensive route for you- make it expensive and time-consuming for the neighbour. And in the mean time get yours sold.

This

SchoolTripDrama · 15/04/2023 12:44

Reality25 · 15/04/2023 09:31

NIMBY neighbours constantly objecting to any sort of development activity for petty reasons is the root cause of so much of our country's woes. Glad the planning system is changing to adapt to it.

He's generating economic value and complying with building regulations, let him crack on and try not to be so tightly wound up about it.

WTAF?!

Kennykenkencat · 15/04/2023 12:46

rc22 · 15/04/2023 09:16

This was 20 years ago so things might be different now. Also, this was a very different situation but might be useful to you. My parent's next door neighbour got planning permission to extend their house right up to the boundary with my parent's property. It would have blocked light etc but neighbours didn't care! My dad got his solicitor to write a letter to them saying that their builders, contractors etc would not be allowed onto my parent's land to build the extension. If they did, it would be considered trespass. They had to build a considerably smaller extension so that the builders could stay on their land.

If this person will need to enter your flats to work on the party wall then I don't know if you have to allow him to even if he has planning permission.

Very good point especially if the wall is so close to the boundary

wonkylegs · 15/04/2023 12:46

Right to light is a separate piece of legislation to planning and although they should consider it the threshold is lower for planning than civil legislation.
Its often ignored but easy to fall foul and can stop poor development or mean that they have to alter plans or get sued.
I had a very illuminating CPD about it from these guys who were so helpful so maybe check out to see if they think you would have a case

www.righttolightsurveyors.co.uk

Chasing through planning is pointless at this time

SweetSakura · 15/04/2023 12:48

If it will block your light seek urgent legal advice on rights of lights claims. You may well be able to get compensation or possibly even prevent the development

SweetSakura · 15/04/2023 12:50

wonkylegs · 15/04/2023 12:46

Right to light is a separate piece of legislation to planning and although they should consider it the threshold is lower for planning than civil legislation.
Its often ignored but easy to fall foul and can stop poor development or mean that they have to alter plans or get sued.
I had a very illuminating CPD about it from these guys who were so helpful so maybe check out to see if they think you would have a case

www.righttolightsurveyors.co.uk

Chasing through planning is pointless at this time

This.
Developers just hope people won't realise they have these rights.

There are a lot of firms doing no win no fee claims for rights of light at the moment - definitely worth investigating

Violaviolin · 15/04/2023 12:53

Even if you'd known and voiced your objection, your reasons wouldn't be enough. I was told "you have no right to light!"

Albiboba · 15/04/2023 12:53

@LadyLapsang what exactly is your issue with the house though? It’s no one’s business whether the couple want or can’t have kids. It’s totally irrelevant to them doing an extension. Why did ‘several’ neighbours complain about the house splitting into 2? I can’t see how a neighbour further down the street has anything to complain about.
It all just sounds a bit NIMBY particularly being so caught up in how much council tax is being paid.

DrPrunesqualler · 15/04/2023 12:55

Violaviolin · 15/04/2023 12:53

Even if you'd known and voiced your objection, your reasons wouldn't be enough. I was told "you have no right to light!"

You have no right to a view.
You have a right to light.
Particularly as OP has that already.

DrPrunesqualler · 15/04/2023 13:00

SchoolTripDrama · 15/04/2023 12:42

This

Show quote history

OP. It would be unwise to ignore a Party Wall notice.
It protects you as much as the neighbour.
I would also suggest you allow them in to do the survey of your property. But also get your own surveyor ( neighbours have to pay for your surveyor)
You can delay this and always respond by the deadline if you need time to contact the Ombudsman, but don’t not respond.

Get everything in writing, including their surveyors report. Everything should be photographed.

If anything happened to your property as a result of the building works you need proof from a surveyor.

slamfightbrightlight · 15/04/2023 13:05

DrPrunesqualler · 15/04/2023 12:19

An Ombudsman can use the lack of notification to immediate neighbours as a reason to review.
The lack of notification is valid.

And once again, it’s to do with severity of loss.
Has the applicant provided rights of light drawings and so on, we don’t know
It’s worth the OP knowing this.
The Ombudsman can ask for changes to the design to reduce the severity.
OP needs to know next steps if she’s prepared to take the matter further.

There are next steps available even though permission has been granted.

If you disagree, then we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

Show quote history

The Ombudsman cannot request changes. It can ask for the decision to be taken again though only in very rare circumstances. If the council’s notification policy does not include writing to neighbours, and there is no statutory requirement for them to write to neighbours, the Ombudsman cannot find fault. It can only find fault where the council has failed to follow statutory guidance or its own notification policy.

Heydiddlelidl · 15/04/2023 13:18

https://www.rtpi.org.uk/planning-advice

Hi OP NRTFT but in case anyone hasn't mentioned it, you can approach Planning Aid for free advice, they're all Royal Town Planning Intitute qualified volunteers and should hopefully be able to advise what your options are.

Planning Advice

Planning Aid England offers planning advice and support to individuals and communities.

https://www.rtpi.org.uk/planning-advice

NetZeroZealot · 15/04/2023 13:19

DomPom47 · 15/04/2023 11:05

I d say contact your local newspaper and if that fails somewhere like the Daily Mail, not sure if it would do anything but free compared to getting lawyers involved and asking for a judicial review etc….

This is terrible advice. It will achieve nothing, and you may well come off looking worse. And there's no way the Daily Mail would be interested in something so trivial, although a local paper might if there's nothing else going on.

Much better to got through the appropriate channels.

SweetSakura · 15/04/2023 13:23

NetZeroZealot · 15/04/2023 13:19

This is terrible advice. It will achieve nothing, and you may well come off looking worse. And there's no way the Daily Mail would be interested in something so trivial, although a local paper might if there's nothing else going on.

Much better to got through the appropriate channels.

Show quote history

Agreed.
I'd focus on the rights of light claim