Why is there so much sneering at Americans with European ancestry?

[BrBa]

I don’t understand! I identify with all my ancestors whether they came as religious refugees or early colonisers, were already indigenous to the region or brought in as slaves.

Yours
Swiss, German, Native American North, Central and South, Sephardic, Irish, South East African, Scottish, Acadian/French, and English

I don’t really understand your point?

I couldn't see why you'd consider Americans any more or less parochial than anyone else.

Ok: Great Britain snd Ireland. We ruled you. Happy now? As we ruled America. It’s still odd to me that an American is desperate to be seen as Irish when America fought to be free of Great Britain and Ireland and its king and its taxes. I guess they 100% managed it though.

Argh. You ruled us? Ffs.

You didn't 'rule' us we don't accept that and we never will. Urgh.

State of you.

America would be better off if they hadn't fought the war of independence, if they'd gained independence through peaceful means like Canada and Australia and other countries did, and were still part of the British commonwealth.

To understand this, you need to know that both Ireland and America rebelled against British rule in the 1700s - some ideas shared with the French Revolution. It took longer for Ireland to gain independence than America, but these 18th century rebellions were still a reference point for the founders of the Irish state and their American supporters.

That's why there's no contradiction in embracing the values of the American Revolution and valuing an Irish heritage.

That is one of the facts Biden was referencing with his discussion of shared values. Most Irish people would have understood that - and he went through some of the history briefly anyway.

Are you basing this dubious conclusion on the assumption that the revolutionary war was so costly that America would have been better off enduring another century or so of British taxes and exploitation?

There would have been a much better chance of this happening if George III hadn't been such a nutter.

I’ve found some Australians & Americans prejudiced against Catholics and / or Irish people.
I’m 50 now and this was particularly notable with people of older generations.
I have an Irish surname even through my family are a mix of French Hugenots, Scottish, English and German.
When I started my first job in a private hospital it was extremely common for older people to pass comment like some sort of gotcha moment.
I see Biden saying I’m Irish as actually politely saying “yes I’m Catholic, what’s it to you”. It was the same with the Kennedy’s.

😬

The whole point was not being part of the Commonwealth though!

Grim

Better off in what way?

Has "hate" been redefined as "anything I disagree with"? Did I miss the memo? Because that's where Internet discussions seem to be heading over the last couple of years.

The Irish aren't sneering at Biden at all. They're proud of his identification with his Irish heritage, and how keen he is to acknowledge it and to show support to Ireland. They were equally happy when Obama did the same thing, and the same with any other Irish Americans who come to visit Ireland - they're welcomed with open arms.
The only ones who are sneering are British media, who are upset that the American President so clearly snubbed the UK. It has even been written that he "owes" it to the UK to make as big a deal of his UK heritage - why, that's his choice, tough!
Biden met Rishi Sunak in Belfast for an uncomfortable hour, then spent several days in Ireland, meeting Irish politicians and many local people. During his trip, as he has all along, he made his support of Ireland over the NI Protocol very clear, and he warned Sunak that there is no question of any UK/US trade deal as long as the UK threatens peace in NI. And he has turned down an invitation to Charles' coronation.
British media portray it as being all about leprechauns, thereby trivialising the issue. They still haven't grasped the seriousness how how badly the UK is damaging its own international standing and reputation. The Western world is firmly on Ireland's side - regardless of heritage. I'm not Irish btw, but I read newspapers in a number of languages and what's being portrayed elsewhere is very different from how it's represented to the UK public.

What a fascinating discussion. It seems the answer to my question is partly due to a British emphasis on nationality, the legal framework by which one becomes a citizen of a nation state with one’s ethnic background and heritage being almost entirely erased from questions of identity. I wasn’t expecting that.

For us the very plurality of our ethnicities and religions and continents of origin, all living side by side, is the success story of our national identity today. It makes perfect sense to me to develop a personal identity based as much upon your family’s cultural history as your country of birth or current residence. Other posters have explained these aspects of American history far more eloquently than I ever could.

You were still disingenuously trying to put words in my mouth. At no point did I say "there is no racism in Europe".

Who are you to contradict their lived experience? They moved to Europe (not just the UK) and found a step-change in how they were treated by others compared with the US. No one crossing the street, no sideways glances, no one pulling their bags closer. They found themselves treated like human beings in shops. Obviously they weren't unfortunate enough to encounter some of the pond life that does exist in the UK, but that it is so rare that they didn't experience it points to how much less overt racism there is in Europe, in contrast to their daily experience in the US.

Interesting thread, OP.

My sense of the international media, particular EU media, agrees with that of @Whalesong I really fear that the UK does not realise how isolated it is becoming.

@Florenz I am another who wonders why the US would be better off in the Commonwealth? Philosophically they obviously prefer otherwise, in the strongest of terms. Culturally, the US does not particularly identify with the UK anymore, although it appreciates much of what is best about the UK. Economically, we have

2021 US GDP over $21T
2021 Commonwealth GDP over $13T

so Commonwealth membership is hardly an economic advantage. What am I missing?

What a fascinating discussion. It seems the answer to my question is partly due to a British emphasis on nationality, the legal framework by which one becomes a citizen of a nation state with one’s ethnic background and heritage being almost entirely erased from questions of identity. I wasn’t expecting that.

Probably because it's incorrect.

The British government does not 'erase' ethnicity. It measures and collects data on race and ethnicity, for example when carrying out a census. Perhaps you were thinking of France?

I’m thinking of the responses to this thread, there were some very firm ‘no you are not Pakistani and neither are your children if you and they were born in Britain’ type of comments.

That's because it might be considered derogatory to say that someone born in Britain is not British. The implication might be that only 'native' Brits can call themselves British. That's not the same as denying someone's heritage.

Surely by definition people born in Britain are native Brits whether or not they have additional Pakistani (or Malay or Romanian) heritage and identities? I will try to find the specific post I am referring to.

Of course I don’t assume these views are representative of the UK as a whole but the same or a similar sentiment was repeated throughout the thread by a number of posters.

Surely by definition people born in Britain are native Brits whether or not they have additional Pakistani (or Malay or Romanian) heritage and identities?

That's why I put 'native' in scare quotes.

There is a certain sector of society who consider British people of recent foreign origin not to be 'really' British. Thankfully, these idiots have dwindled in numbers recently, but a few of them still exist. That's why it might be considered insulting to refer to a British person of, for example, Nigerian origin as being 'Nigerian'. It would be much more polite, and accurate, to refer to them simply as British. That's not the same as denying their Nigerian heritage.

Is this considered polite? I’m attaching the post in question, where a poster has decided that the child of another poster is not Pakistani, despite the parent explaining their ethnicity as an inescapable fact of their existence. It read like whitewashing or cultural incompetence at best.

I understand that national citizenship can be a part of how people identify but it’s not the whole, especially if you are not white.

I don't see anything wrong with the poster's comment.

You seem to be trying to superimpose American norms on other countries, which kind of validates some of the arguments made above.