Why is there so much sneering at Americans with European ancestry?

[BrBa]

I don’t understand! I identify with all my ancestors whether they came as religious refugees or early colonisers, were already indigenous to the region or brought in as slaves.

Yours
Swiss, German, Native American North, Central and South, Sephardic, Irish, South East African, Scottish, Acadian/French, and English

Who said he hates the UK?

The jist of what people are talking about is Biden having some Irish Great-Great Grandparents who emigrated to the US in the 19th century and he's claiming to be/feel Irish and that visiting Co. Mayo feels like "coming home" and the Taoiseach describing him as the "most Irish of all the American presidents" which is factually incorrect as just an example, President Andrew Jackson was born in the US to Irish parents who migrated to the US from Ireland a few years before he was born. It's a hell of a stretch to suggest anyone who has Irish Great-Great Grandparents is Irish in any way. Biden is an American with Irish ancestry almost 200 years back.

JFK did the same thing in 1963 eulogising about his Irishness when he had closer Irish ancestry than Biden but still Great-Grandparents so not that close. It's PR and the American sentimentality shared by descendants of Irish migrants which influences voting. To the point Bill Clinton even claimed to have Irish ancestry despite there being no evidence of it. Though Clinton did play a great role in the Good Friday Agreement and was inducted into the Irish-American hall of fame. Despite no evidence he has Irish ancestry.

Indeed, an Indian work colleague of mine told me that Indians are extremely proud that a person of Indian extraction such as Sunak has become UK PM (and indeed Leo Varadkar in Ireland before him). 2nd generation Indians becoming leaders of European countries was an extremely big deal for them.

It's not "factually incorrect" for Varadkar to describe Biden as the "most Irish of all the American presidents", BuddyandTinsel. Varadkar's a medic. He understands hereditary as well as most posters here. He's not counting drops of Irish blood.

He himself is a man of dual heritage, Irish and Indian. I'm sure he has thought about questions of identity. And he made the point that we can be Irish by inheritance and by choice.

Biden's engagement with his Irish roots is pretty obvious. Leo's statement was perfectly reasonable.

You're confusing facts with feelings.

Of course it's factually incorrect to suggest he is the most Irish of presidents when other presidents had much closer Irish heritage.

If you believe that someone can be Irish 'by choice' that's a feeling. Not a fact. And a daft one.

Biden’s engagement with his very very distant roots is pure electioneering. American style! The Irish were just the useful people. God help America putting up with this!

Well, that far right ghoul Arlene Foster (ex-DUP) said there was "no doubt" that he was "anti-British" 😂

Plus Sammy "nature boy" Wilson, also from the DUP (which is essentially a 17th century Old Testament cult masquerading as a "political party") said he was "anti-Protestant"...... despite the inconvenient fact that Biden is married to a Protestant! 😂🤣

Someone should have asked Sammy if he or anyone from the DUP would marry a Catholic, I think we know what the answer would be!

Not at all.

You're presenting your definition of Irishness as universal fact. Of course it isn't! Why would it be?

To start with, there would be people in Britain who would qualify for Irish passports with less Irish ancestry than some who don't qualify. There are some who can collect Irish passports now after Brexit because of their parents' choice - to put them on the Foreign born register. If I was born in Ireland I'm not less Irish if I had just the one Irish parent. And so on.

If your view is that proportion of irish-born ancestors is what makes you more or less Irish, that really is just your opinion. I don't see much support for it in law (Irish citizenship) or in culture (Irish identity).

Any reason why someone might not genuinely want to engage with their family heritage? Or is it just Irish heritage that's not worth bothering about? Funny how many people (not presidents) come over to Ireland for the same reasons every year.

This is so true.
Varadkar described him as the most Irish of Irish presidents because in addition to his genetic links he lives his Irishness loud and proud. He grew up immersed in Irish culture, he has visited Ireland many times, he works hard to keep the links alive. His Irish heritage is extremely important to him. Other US politicians have played their Irishness as an electronical card but this is certainly not the case with Biden. It is clear to see how his Irish heritage has formed who he is today and how it is so important to him.

Well when Americans claim to be more Irish than the Irish, or more Scottish than the Scots, yet haven't set foot in either country for five generations and could barely place them on a map - and have the cheek to lecture the people actually living in those countries about local politics (usually from a nationalist stance after having watched too many Braveheart films or whatever), perhaps it is they who need to read up on history.

Andrew Jackson's Irishness is a bit different from Biden's. Both have heritage from people born in Ireland, but while Biden's seems Irish Catholic on a 10/16 basis, Jackson (and Grant and Wilson and Nixon) have Scots-Irish descent. That generally means Presbyterian Scottish settlers who through the generations migrated Scotland - Ulster (generally) - America, often with an East Coast and then Mid-West migration within the US. All the genealogies of these Presidents are well documented.

I have visited both of these:

https://discovernorthernireland.com/things-to-do/us-grant-ancestral-homestead-p675741

https://www.monreaghulsterscotscentre.com

The former is Grant focused in NI and the other more general in Donegal.

Sure - if that happens, those people should read up on history. Haven't encountered it myself but of course there are anecdotes, as on this thread.

Plenty of Irish-Americans (like Biden) have engaged much more deeply with their Irish heritage.

And all that Irish americanism in politics has had a real benefit for Ireland - and for the UK. Thanks in part to american and irish american intervention, 10 years ago a civil war in the UK - that the UK seemed unable to stop and that caused untold suffering to UK subjects - ended

@Pallisers Irish Americans were sending funds and weapons to the Provisional IRA. They undoubtedly dragged out the conflict that only really ended when the IRA were exhausted enough to be forced to come to the table.

The prejudice and hate on this thread is vile, it's not surprising to see why exiled people may have formed bonds when they moved to other countries if this is the attitude 100s of years later. Not very inclusive at all. I don't think Chinese/Vietnamese/Jamaican/Pakistani etc would have the same attitude if a person with a great grandparent came to visit their country, they'd probably be warm and welcoming. That in itself is quite telling.

Yes, the prejudice shown on this thread is absoutley disgusting to see in this day and age. I have been surprised by it as I thought I lived in a more tolerant world.

What specifically is hateful about the post you quoted?

We're not on about people describing themselves as "Irish-American" though, it's those claiming to actually be Irish. No African-Americans are going around claiming to be actually African and telling Senegalese people how they should run their country.

Incidentally, many African-Americans who have moved to Europe have said how they appreciated being treated as "just Americans", with no one caring about the colour of their skin or crossing the street to avoid them.

I travel a lot in America - I am Irish, born in Ireland, live in Ireland. American People tell me they too are Irish all the time. I just find that a bit odd. One fellow Irish man complemented me on my English language skills😂. He clearly knew nothing about Ireland despite claiming to be Irish!!

There are more than a few Americans who seem surprised at how well the English speak English.

With respect though - Irish-Americans aren't calling themselves British, or Welsh. Is it really for you to say that they and the people of Ireland use the term Irish? Lots of people have explained on this thread that there are strong traditions of migrant culture and diaspora linking Ireland and America and shaping language use.

If it's not in your culture, I respect that, but it in Irish and American cultures.

There are more than a few idiots in every country and culture. Irish, American, English, Welsh, whatever. So what?

Harry's daughter was born in California, wasn't she? So born in America to an English father and American mother. She is an American citizen by birth. Is it ok with everyone here if she refers to herself as British American? I know there's so much concern about "cultural appropriation" by several posters🙄

Ah yes, because everyone knows there is no racism in Europe🙄

@Greenfinch7

I’ve certainly experienced white Americans struggle to ‘categorise’ black British people! One chap insisted on calling them ‘African -American’ because he couldn’t seem to compute that black people could be simply ‘British’.

perhaps it’s symptomatic of the America obsession with heritage, but it’s certainly something Europeans find odd.

No one said that there wasn't any racism in Europe. You're trying to put words in my mouth.

No, just referring to your last paragraph in that quote:

Incidentally, many African-Americans who have moved to Europe have said how they appreciated being treated as "just Americans", with no one caring about the colour of their skin or crossing the street to avoid them.