Why is there so much sneering at Americans with European ancestry?

[BrBa]

I don’t understand! I identify with all my ancestors whether they came as religious refugees or early colonisers, were already indigenous to the region or brought in as slaves.

Yours
Swiss, German, Native American North, Central and South, Sephardic, Irish, South East African, Scottish, Acadian/French, and English

True, that 🤣

But there are pockets of Argentina & Brazil - that I know of; there must be more - where Welsh is still spoken and people use old versions of Welsh national dress with various local adjustments. They have festivals featuring strange line-dances that are based on whatever dances were fashionable in 17th century Wales.

Apparently there's deep animosity between the various 'Welsh' communities.

People be weird

In the case of Italy, though, anyone with an Italian parentisautomatically considered to be Italian, under the jus sanguinis rule.

@Oriunda Poland works this way as well. Country of birth is not relevant if your parent is a Polish citizen.

They haven't been brought up with any such cultures though, have they? They've been brought up American. Nowt wrong with that but it isn't the same.

I'm yet to see this 'air of superiority' that we Brits are supposed to have. I assume you mean disagreement. If you think disagreement equals superiority, then you need help.

I agree. I've learned a lot from @DownNative's posts and will read the link later on.

In America, people will often say "I am Irish, I am Italian, I am Polish", whatever, as a way of identifying themselves. They are speaking about how they have been brought up. It means they have been brought up with Irish, Polish, Italian culture. I do not know why people cannot understand this?

Except in my experience they aren't really brought up with that culture. Instead they have an American culture with some elements of whatever culture they have inherited. This is similar to the concept of "3rd culture kids".

The Americans I have met like this hark back to relatives who died before they were born and whose culture is greatly diluted, keeping just a few odd foods or traditions.

I watched a YouTube video recently of an Italian lady living in NYC visiting 'Little Italy' and trying to find Italian-speakers in the Italian restaurants and delis. She found one or two who were born in Italy but that was about it. The rest were American people describing themselves as Italian because their ancestors migrated in the 19th century.

My grandparents are Irish but I wouldn’t ever claim to be. It’s just possibly a bit strange to claim to be from
a country when you haven’t ever stepped foot in it!

So why does the same logic not work with people of colour. You could have a fourth generation black person living in the USA and they are still referred to as African American. Or with grandparents who are black (not necessarily African) but their grandchildren are still called AA. And most of them have never been to Africa, either. It's bizarre.

they aren't really brought up with that culture. Instead they have an American culture with some elements of whatever culture they have inherited

One of my many pointless lockdown obsessions was Italian cookery discussions. Often, you'd get someone coming in with "You're all wrong. THIS is how the dish should be made! How do I know? I'm Italian, and my Nonna taught me." Everyone would fawn over the authentic Italian cook, begging for more.

30 posts and one hour later, someone else turns up: "Hey, Italiana, you're American Italian I guess? Because that is NOT how you make this dish! I know Americans like it that way, but no-one in Italy would put [ingredient] into it or serve it the way you said."

Actually, I can see why I enjoyed them so much 😂

Is this more to do with family ties and why people seem to be struggling with this? I know my cousins (well) back to fourth or fifth generations as we have regular family events and the family connection has always been very important and carried through with each generation. My grandparents siblings and their fanilies are in different parts of the world and we all keep contact. I know lots of people like this in RL, particularly immigrant communities.

Then there people who don't even know their first or second cousins, and (especially on mumsnet!) can barely stand their MIL, have NC with one of their siblings and don't want their step kids around if their partner isn't there etc etc so for these people it's not really surprising that they think this way. Apart from their nuclear family, the rest of the family is basically non-existent (and generally speaking it's a white people thing)

They may call themselves 'African American', but I've never heard them describe themselves as simply 'African', unless of course they are of recent African descent.

I don't think it's the idea of people calling themselves 'Italian American' or 'Irish American' that bothers people here, even if sometimes the links are quite tenuous. It's more the idea of someone like Biden, whose link to Ireland is through great grandparents he never met, going around calling himself just plain 'Irish' that seems ridiculous to some.

Exactly (and sadly many won't have any idea where they are from as it cannot be traced back).

Is this more to do with family ties? - Good lord, no!

It's about falsely/imaginatively/sentimentally claiming a nationality which is not yours.

OK, so how long before Harry's kids (or grandkids, great grandkids etc) can't "claim" their history? So even if your Grandfather is the King, you're American? What's the criteria to be accepted? Genuinely interested to see what people think about this.

and they are still referred to as African American

Yeah, because white Americans are scared of saying black, aren't sure whether they should refer to colour at all, and are still racist so can't help using a label that centres race/colour.

African British isn't a thing - forms have "Black British" in the optional list of ethnicities - and afaik, neither are African French, African Dutch, etc.

Of course black & brown Britons know where their heritage /ethnicity /race /colouring comes from. Of course many seek to explore it in ways that suit them. But no-one else is slapping a label on 'em and, once past their annoying "Caribbean" teenage phase (in some cases), they manage to incorporate their personal identities without needing to keep announcing it. Everybody has a heritage, all of it is mixed.

It's the eagerness to label that feels weird, coupled with creative labelling strategies.

😂 I dunno. Ask their cousins.

Biden is playing to the Irish American voters. His garbled speech about being “Irish” is cringeworthy. He’s spend no time actually doing anything to further relationships in Ireland. It’s a publicity stunt and it’s shallow. He spent 5 mins having coffee with Richi Sunak. It’s a total sham. Italy should thank their lucky stars he hasn’t got any Italians in the family!

Well firstly they don’t drop the American part, so it’s not the same...

But also, it’s not a choice when society decides for you. Being black isn’t something people can opt in and out of.

Their descendants will always be descendants of a King. Harry's children were born in England to an English Father and American Mother so are British-American living in America.

If the next few generations marry American partners and have children born in America then they're American with some British ancestry.

But not British.

Hmmm, yeah doesn't really work with British does it

He actually did a lot in Ireland. He was here for 4 days with a constant schedule of visits, speechs etc...it is his longest state visit.
He had been to Ireland many times previously and his visit reinforced his ties here.

This was primarily a visit to Ireland for Biden. He has Irish ancestors, which he is incredibly proud of. Because he is such a great supporter of Ireland it does not mean he hates the UK. He can love Ireland AND the UK. He has visited the UK previously and will be visiting the UK again in June. He has talked about the special relationship between USA and UK.
It can be hard for Irish people as we were treated so badly by the UK. Our land, our culture and our language were taken. The Irish famine where millions of people died and emigrated was caused by UK policies. After independence Catholics in NI were treated as second class citizens. This is something most people in the UK know very little about. They are told about the IRA, but never told about loyalist paramilitaries. The absolute vast majority of Irish people do not support the IRA and are appalled by them. They just want peace. The current peace is very fragile and recent UK politicians have been an absolute disaster.

In the times JB family left Ireland, Irish culture was been wiped out.

The Penal Laws were in since late 1600's. Cromwell was taking immense pleasure in slaughtering Irish people using Catholic Churches as stables.

Then we had the combination of the coffin ships and the prison ships. There is a lot of Irish diaspora going back in Australia also, that is due to the prison ships.

For anyone escaping they knew they would never see their homeland again, they were they would never see their families. When they were leaving they did not even know if anything of culture they had would still exist.

A lot of Irish immigrants decided they were keeping their Irishness, they would maintain their traditions/culture of the times, it also would have helped with the homesickness and also a common bond when they were been stigmatised against in America.

It is not hurting anyone and it gives people peace.

Some people don't like it but that's their problem.

I love JB came had a combo holiday and state visit.

He had a very personal moment with the priest in Mayo. Baby Margot stole the show at Leinster House.

What difference does it make to you?

@Evanna13
For electoral reasons and checking in on ancestors pre Democrat electioneering. Honestly - what else did he actually do? Virtually nothing. He was, so people thought, going to talk to politicians about the GFA and it’s continuation. Frankly he did very little. Visits and glad handing does nothing. Except photo ops. The speech I heard was utter gibberish. He’s little understanding of anything political.

That's your opinion but I enjoyed watching his visit and I thought a lot of what he said in his visit was very meaningful.