Why is there so much sneering at Americans with European ancestry?

[BrBa]

I don’t understand! I identify with all my ancestors whether they came as religious refugees or early colonisers, were already indigenous to the region or brought in as slaves.

Yours
Swiss, German, Native American North, Central and South, Sephardic, Irish, South East African, Scottish, Acadian/French, and English

I don't need a counter-argument. Noraid were misguided, deluded twats, but bad as they were, even they never went as far as directly profiting from another country's genocide. That's just sick. I wonder if that poster is just as "angry" about that. I doubt it.

Oh the old feud continues in Australia don't worry.

My uncle married an Aussie girl. Her dad was quite upset at her marrying an Irishman. He was a Freemason. Perhaps it's fading a bit now though.
Yes@CordyLines Oz is a much younger country than the US or Canada but Australian ppl I know are interested in the convict ships and rebellions against authority like Eureka Stockade.

There really is nothing more irritating than being Scottish and having to listen to loud Americans telling you they're also Scottish because their great great great great great grandparents were from here. Eh no you're American.

Yeah, I'm Australian but thanks for explaining Australian culture to me

You do if you want to have a point. There's a reason the Appeal To Hypocrisy is a logical fallacy.....

You get the impression that being American is really important to identity there -'U S A' chants etc so it is quite confusing.

What's causing your confusion?

And he's not just any American, is he? He's the President.

Imagine Rishi Sunak going on about how 'Indian' or maybe 'Kenyan' he feels. Yet he has recent Indian ancestry.

I'd like to hear that and would respect him for it, if he wanted to talk about his identity this way. But maybe it would put his position in British politics at risk.

America is just a different political culture from Britain.

Oh, I’m not looking to excuse anyone. But I’m also not looking to attack anyone, either. 💁🏻‍♀️
it’s an engaging discussion, to me- I don’t see how it can be any kind of competition, when we all have such completely separate experiences.

Yes it must have been really hard to be so far away and only be able to write home, and lots of Irish were still emigrating for work in the 50s. It’s no wonder Irish communities stuck together then.

So in the unlikely event that Americans voted in an ethnically Indian president, would they be happy for him to go to Delhi, and address the parliament saying how he felt 'at home' in India? And refer to Indians as 'us'? Just like Biden did in Ireland?

Somehow I doubt it.

You’re genuinely suggesting that Americans don’t realise that the term Irish has any other meaning than Irish American?

it genuinely doesn’t occur to them them that Irish might actually mean Irish?!?
and you think that’s reasonable? 😂

yep I’m afraid I’m sneering at that @Anonymous48 😂

Everytime a comparison to other cultures and nationalities in regard to making a big deal of heritage is made on this thread or when I made a point of the makeup of a British society now, it is either ignored or dismissed as not relevant because America is different, all countries are different from each other, so it is not really an argument. If Irish people had to leave Ireland like my DH's Gran as a baby did due to poverty and oppression or his Jewish grandparents from Europe and Ukraine what is the difference? A poster stated earlier that the British are not allowed to have a moral moan about innocent lives as they are British but the make up of British people is varied and diverse.

Not everyone was happy when Obama did that in Kenya. I'd imagine any Indian president would face racism, unfortunately. But being American does not require Americans to detach themselves from their wider heritage.

I really don't know what the response would be if Sunak spoke this way - I can't think of any parallel in British politics, but maybe I'm missing something.

British culture abroad is not generally something to be that proud of. So a low profile is best in the circumstances.

@FurAndFeathers Having lived in the US for over a decade and married to an American, my perception is that SOME Americans are unaware of the linguistic difference in other parts of the world. Of course they know that saying you’re “Italian” can mean that you’re an Italian citizen and live in Italy, but they don’t realize that calling themselves “Italian”
(when they’re actually Americans with distant Italian heritage) can be confusing to other people.

Yep, and I'm fed up of US-centric justifications. I've also seen & heard loads of Americans being clueless that Spanish is the native language of a country called Spain: they think it's unique to Mexicans & Puerto Ricans 😂 Exactly the same with English being the native language of England. And let's not think about the fact that Georgia is a European country as well as an American state!

"I am Irish" means you're FROM IRELAND. When you insist it also means American with some Irish ancestry, you're displaying your American supremacist perspective which, not surprisingly, gets everyone else's back up.

@GarlicGrace Tbh, I don’t attribute it to a U.S.-centric view of the world, it’s ignorance and not being well-travelled.
People aren’t being deliberately obtuse, they just don’t know. 🤷

I am Irish" means you're FROM IRELAND

That's one of several meanings. Others are widely understood and recognised.

But it's not 'widely understood' that being 'Irish' means some of your great grandparents came from there, but you have never lived there yourself and would not qualify for citizenship. It may be understood that way in America, but there's a vast world outside America where the whole idea just seems odd.

In America and Ireland, people do understand this usage. It's okay for others not to be familiar with it, but why should the people concerned not use the terms the way they want to?

There's no point in laying down the law about it meaning only one thing. (I know you haven't done this yourself). That's obviously not true!

@HamBone, I appreciate your tolerance and understanding.

I've never fully recovered from the shock of an American customer subjecting me to a long and extremely aggressive rant about nobody speaking English - in Switzerland, where everybody speaks at least 2 languages, often 4 or 5 - and my (bog standard, no regional accent) English being hard to understand, why couldn't I speak properly?

Add in many subsequent doozers from Americans while travelling the world, demonstrating that foreign travel had done nothing to expand their geographic knowledge or historical awareness, and I decided to completely ignore all such crap for the sake of my sanity. I wouldn't say I'm sneering so much as dismissing 🤷🏼‍♀️

In America yes. But in Ireland, no they don't. That's just not true.

I'm fairly widely travelled, and in any country I've been in except America, if you say you're 'Irish', or 'Italian' or 'Swedish' or whatever, it is understood only one way. That you are from that country. Nobody would think 'Obviously when you say you're Irish what you really mean is that some of your ancestors left Ireland over a century ago.' That meaning is specific to Americans.

And sure, people can use terms whatever way they wish, provided they're prepared to accept that people might totally misunderstand what they are saying and feel a bit annoyed at their ignorance of cultural and linguistic norms outside their own country.

Well said! This thread reinforces the English stereotype of thinking they're superior to everyone else, not much has changed from colonial times. Also because they don't have a history to be proud of and people don't want to identify with being English it's hit a nerve. People think of English as pompous and unfriendly, whereas Irish, Scottish and Welsh are friendly and charming and they don't like it at all. Rude amd ignorant beyond belief to say who can and can't identify with their heritage.

It may be understood that way in America, but there's a vast world outside America where the whole idea just seems odd.

Thats exactly what I mean, @IcedPurple, IME, Americans who call themselves Irish rather than Irish American genuinely don’t realize how weird it sounds to the rest of the world.

One of my American friends refers to himself as Italian as he had Italian great-grandparents. He’s visited Italy once and doesn’t have citizenship.

OTOH, I have a Peruvian friend whose Italian grandparents emigrated to Peru and so his family has both Italian and Peruvian passports. They just refer to themselves as Peruvian here in the US.

It’s two different ways of looking at heritage-where you were brought up vs. your ancestry, I suppose.