Why is there so much sneering at Americans with European ancestry?

[BrBa]

I don’t understand! I identify with all my ancestors whether they came as religious refugees or early colonisers, were already indigenous to the region or brought in as slaves.

Yours
Swiss, German, Native American North, Central and South, Sephardic, Irish, South East African, Scottish, Acadian/French, and English

And maybe, just maybe these identities are the result of being regarded as a lesser human being due to one's roots - not protestant, not from Anglo-Saxon sphere-thus, a barbarian.

There is a difference between people who grow up in mainstream American culture and never learnt their roots (they are ridicules) and people who experienced immersion into ancestors' culture.
I know people who are like 4th or 5th generation, but grow up speaking language, learning history at weekend schools etc.

And it happens in the UK as well, and for the full disclosure, it is not a bad thing as long, as it dose not prevent assimilation into mainstream culture.

@LampLamp The people you're describing are racists, pure and simple. That isn't about identifying as Irish-American, it's unabashed racism.

A lot of people who join these Facebook groups and become heavily invested in them exhibit strange anti-social behavior. There's a reason younger people have mostly abandoned Facebook.

This is why I asked about racism in Ireland and diversity earlier in the thread but was ignored. According to a report commissioned by The Irish Council For International Students in 2021, 40% had experienced racism and the European Commission have reported how it doesn't fair as well as it's European counter parts on this front.

Yes they are racists (and I agree re Facebook - I’m no longer on it), plain and simple.

A long with that example goes the others I’ve mentioned where Irish Americans want to keep what they see as Irish traditions alive in their American communities but begrudge actual Irish people moving forward and modernising.

I was in Cavan last week having a drink with a few friends and family friends came across an “Irish American” group who were astonished that none of us were drinking Guinness or Harp. FFS.

They want to keep us as a quaint wee theme park.

Which is just part of the reason we don't like them saying they are Irish. They're not Irish, they don't know Ireland. They think its still all donkeys and tenements and begorrah. They haven't the first clue about modern, multicultural 21st century Ireland with its problems and its successes.

To be fair, I don’t think most people have an issue with mixed identities (obviously that post does)

It’s more when there’s a lack of differentiation between the whichever type of American heritage and actual direct experience of that country.

But mostly when people are obnoxious about it - I’ve seen Italian Americans online arguing with Italians over pronunciation of Italian words, or I follow a woman on Tiktok from Glasgow whose grandparents came over from China, her and both her parents were born here and Americans frequently have issues with her being Scottish.

Obviously some people are obnoxious on the other side of the argument too, but they’re my beefs with it.

They want to keep us as a quaint wee theme park.

@LampLamp Ah, the "Brigadoon"/" Quiet Man" crowd😂Were they expecting an invite to have some Irish soda bread back at your thatch roofed cottage?

I think people like that don't mean any harm or disrespect, but they should absolutely educate themselves unless they enjoy being seen as boorish simpletons.

Hopefully they learned something useful during their stay!

Why do you care?

Because they are culturally appropriating from others.

I think Florenz makes a good point, surely it is better to get on and assimilate ourselves in to a community/society than continually highlight are differences to the detriment of our relations and freedom of choice. I am married to a Jewish man and I'm not Jewish, I have Swedish and German heritage if you are looking back to the 19th century. My DC have an Irish surname. My MIL was married to an English man with a mother that was born in Ireland.

My DC have an Irish surname but are not really bothered like all of their friends

Actually, the only person to bring it up was the son of an Irish Mother who remarked on it to him, he then talked about it to DD and we are in Southern England so no one has ever mentioned it.

No, they're not. If an American of Polish descent chooses to observe some of the customs handed down to them thru the generations, they are not appropriating anything. This is literally part of their culture.

This isn't hard to understand. It's fine that the use of Polish-American isn't something you like or agree with, but there is no cultural appropriation.

And likewise I'm sure Yemenis, those who haven't been slaughtered yet that is, are perfectly valid in feeling anger at British taxpayers directly profiting to the tune of billions of pounds from their death and destruction.

Are you angry at American/ Canadian/ South African supporters of the UDA and UVF?

To say nothing of their Scottish supporters and even members. Case of least said the better maybe.

Why wouldn’t that member be angry at Loyalist terrorist groups too?!

You've no reason to presume what you did. From what I can gather, they're a GB resident so naturally PSF/PIRA will be their main focus.

Anyone who supports an illegal terrorist group is in the wrong. I doubt there are American, Canadian and South African supporters of any of the Loyalist terrorist groups. In fact, I'd be amazed if they've heard of them!

The reason why a lot of people in North America and South Africa know of PSF/PIRA is because the Provos built up an international presence deliberately. Often in order to acquire funding and/or weapons. Aside from the international media coverage of their atrocities, obviously.

The Loyalists didn't try this, IIRC.

Also, Whataboutery and Appeal To Hypocrisy are logical fallacies as well. AKA errors in logic and reasoning.

I’m American (by birth annd lived there til late 20s) and have personally not experienced any sneering. But Americans are obnoxiously keen to claim they are SOMETHING (and some of them while denigrating anything that it’s AMERICAN!).

I was raised to believe I was Irish (my dad had a typically Irish surname). The family story is we’re Irish. Everyone in my part of America wants to be Irish or Italian. I did my genealogy as an adult in my 40s. No evidence of any family from Ireland. Everyone from England, no idea where the Irish name came from.

So if there is any sneering, I think it’s perhaps in this context, and also about how quite a few Americans (again I speak as an American) are quite anti anything that isn’t red white and blue American, yet are keen to claim a European ancestry.

Perhaps, but you're missing the point that you have failed to respond to that members point.

Appeal To Hypocrisy is a logical fallacy where a person is using it in lieu of a counter-argument....

You can only get Harp in Northern Ireland now surely?

I live near a very touristy area and I've yet to encounter the stereotyped ' Returned Yank' noisy American of yore. Mostly they are hyper aware that their reputation precedes them.

Also they seem pretty clued up about politics - especially if it's not their first visit to Ireland - and usually agnostic about whether or not the country should reunite for example. The Internet has doubtless helped to disabuse them of some romantic notions.

That and the cost of living ! They are too busy being in shock 🤯 at the prices to worry overmuch about the absence of donkeys etc. OK so they might spend time trying to track distant rellies. Why not though? Half the world is on 23 andme ffs.

I’m an American, and I also lived in Germany for years, and the one thing I can add to this discussion is: we are a very young, naive country. When I moved back from Germany, I had people asking if I was a “communist” since I had lived in Germany. Just incredible ignorance.

many people here have not been out of the country - ever- in their entire lives.

we don’t have the kind of history you all do- we think a building is “old” if it was built in the 1800’s!

So all of our ancestors (except Native Americans) came over from somewhere almost within our memory. Maybe a few generations removed, but it’s still the blink of an eye when compared to the history in the UK and elsewhere.

“No Irish Need Apply” was a sign in many shops- just to bring up the Irish thing, Irish immigrants were treated very badly -
so within the melting pot of the USA, we still have these areas where people were handed down the idea that they are Irish, or they are Polish, or they are Russian, etc. because that’s how they kept safe.

traditions were preserved within those groups, but they also changed over time, so it’s watered down and probably completely bizarre to someone actually from those countries - it’s a tradition from the time immigrants arrived, that has been preserved by word of mouth or communal sharing. It might be so far removed from the actual tradition, that it’s completely different.

People might connect very passionately with their ancestry (like Biden does) because ultimately it’s an Underdog story, and their family had to be scrappy and wily and f*cking survive by any means.

Or there are also those who are snobby as hell about their lineage, because we had “old families” especially in Boston and New York, families with old money forming our version of aristocracy.

I can see how ridiculous it is to other countries - but when you’re a mixed mutt in a country with no roots here, one has to try to form an identity, and learning about our ancestors is the way many of us do that.

however. I really wish more Americans would travel and would learn other languages. It is so embarrassing .. the ignorance.

but at the same time, that I say that is a bit classist - many cannot afford to travel, and can’t afford education. So they take their learning from their family “roots,” I suppose.

thanks for being patient with us; America is basically the equivalent of a pre-teen child 😂🥳

Surely he's more American than he is anything else?

You get the impression that being American is really important to identity there -'U S A' chants etc so it is quite confusing.

And the US flag on flagpoles on residential properties too. Pretty popular there!

White Australia is also very young, also forced people to leave their homelands, and also did a fair bit of genocide. Yet somehow we manage to not be "Irish" all the time and no-one needs to be patient with us. In a country with internet access there's really no excuse for total ignorance of the world even when the education system is questionable and people can't afford to travel

Many Australians are descended from Irish and British convicts who were transported for stealing a sheep.

Is that something current Australians are interested in via ancestry?