To think that the Peter Brookes cartoon of Joe Biden in the Times is pretty offensive towards Irish people?

[Hedwigharlot]

The cartoon depicts him dressed as a leprechaun. It's like a depiction of Irish people from a Punch Magazine in the 19th century. Who thought it was appropriate? And why are the British media working themselves up into such a jealous frenzy over Biden coming to Ireland? Very poor behaviour.

It is incredibly offensive. I can't believe that people on here are actually excusing this type of portrayal of Irish people. It's easy to say the jokes on Biden, or it's xyz reason but, in reality, all you are doing is making excuses for offensive, anti-Irish sentiment. The Times should not have published this and people should not make up excuses for it. Maybe it is a swipe at Biden but that could have been done without an offensive caricature of the Irish.

@Notegoat as @belleager says, offensive stereotypes about Irishness are much worse coming from an ostensibly respectable British newspaper than from Irish America. I'm not mad about the latter either, but the history between Britain and Ireland vs between US and Ireland makes the Times cartoon far, far worse - a totally different thing, really.

@Goldenbear 'the Irish' are an ethnic minority in Britain. They've also been racialised, historically (within living memory) even if they're not currently. And, of course, visible race has no biological basis, so 'race' is always actually racialisation ie socially constructed.

The amount of Britsplaining on here is sickening. The oppressors speaking on behalf of the oppressed. Nothing ever changes.

Why is he an idiot for being proud of his roots?

The reason his family left Mayo and Louth is grim. Coffin ships were horrendous and have the name for a reason. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make but I don't think Biden should be called an idiot for pointing out his distant relatives left Ireland in a coffin ship because of a famine.

I did like the theory that he mentioned the black and tans so people would google it and perhaps learn about them …,,,,

There was no famine. It was genocide. The British were trying to exterminate the Irish.

This was what I took from the cartoon. My Irish husband makes much less of a thing of being Irish than several generations removed Biden.

I think that is exactly why some people in Britain resent anyone in Ireland who knows any history.

The 'Black and Tans' thing was interesting - he was tired and jetlagged, but clearly doesn't spend his life dwelling on the sorrows of Ireland (or on rugby, but puts more weight on the latter).

I do agree with you. I used famine as it's what it's commonly called, not what the intention behind it was.

A famine that the British could have eased and deliberately chose not too, killing people.

I'm Irish and I don't care about it. It's a stupid cartoon. Its fine.

If you're not offended that's good. However, I'm Irish and I am offended, as are many others. Surely the Times could have made their point in a way that didn't offend a lot, but not all, Irish people.

He's getting slated under his tweet of the cartoon on Twitter. Looking through his stuff I'd say he's not a very good cartoonist or funny either.

https://twitter.com/BrookesTimes/status/1646448882014986241

@eurochick your Irish husband didn't have his Irishness taken away from him under circumstances that can arguably be described as attempted genocide (@DandyMandy not sure it makes the cut as a full ie "successful" genocide) It's pretty much always the case that immigrants and the diaspora cling to some parts (including stereotypical parts) of their culture of origin more tenaciously than those who stay immersed in it.

@Chulainn also Irish, also offended. Though what else to expect from the Times...

Priti Patel joked about murdering the Irish a few years ago by withholding food and nothing was done about it. Imagine if someone made a joke about her lot being starved by Churchill during World War Two. The irony is that if she had done that it would have been the British who starved this time.

I’m Irish and I am offended by it. It’s a stupid cartoon that relies on derogatory stereotypes, whether it intends to suggest that Biden views the Irish as those stereotypes or not.

They (Irish Americans) terrified me because they see themselves as Irish and out of ‘patriotism’ they helped fund terrorists that attacked Northern Ireland and England. Places where actual Irish people and their descendants live too. Whenever my parents went over on to visit family I worried that they’d be hurt - by the Republicans for having a British registered car and English accents or by the Unionists for having Irish names or going to mass. A cousin from Dublin did a masters at Queen’s and I worried about them the whole time. My sister was in town when a bomb went off. There was a hole in my city my last summer before University. As a child I overheard anti-English crap from ‘Irish’ American tourists within 10 miles of the Irish village my grandfather grew up in and where his siblings still lived.

How tasteful of him.

I overheard anti-Irish crap in Armagh, from a man pointing a loaded gun at me. And more times than I could count in England. So what?

It's horrible whoever it comes from, and it's really weird to see a national newspaper directing it at someone who can influence decisions about investment in his country.

Isn't the whole point that Biden has stepped into an Irish trope that is more pantomime than heritage at this point? He's no more Irish than I am and I wouldn't expect anyone in Ireland to put up with me if I laid claim to it as an identity.

Chulainn well of course not. I thought it was clear I was speaking only for myself.

The British need to leave the Irish alone. They're lucky we haven't demanded reparations from them. Leave us be and continue to seethe in jealous because we value family and culture and you don't.

More recent emigrants have usually encountered less prejudice, and have usually left Ireland by choice.

Irish-Americanism is a culture in itself. Biden has been Irish-American all his life. That's obvious whenever his ancestors left Ireland.

The experience of being Irish in Ireland, Irish in Britain, Irish in America - all different, all change over time. It's a reasonable thing to decide that your heritage is an important part of your identity. That's reinforced by communities - local, educational, religious, political.

Those communities mattered more when diversity and tolerance were less valued. So they tend to matter to people of Biden's generation. There's no one way of being Irish. But there are fairly well trodden paths to denigrating the Irish - and the Times is tripping merrily along that way.

The British need to leave the Irish alone. They're lucky we haven't demanded reparations from them. Leave us be and continue to seethe in jealous because we value family and culture and you don't

🤣 okeydokey