To think that the Peter Brookes cartoon of Joe Biden in the Times is pretty offensive towards Irish people?

[Hedwigharlot]

The cartoon depicts him dressed as a leprechaun. It's like a depiction of Irish people from a Punch Magazine in the 19th century. Who thought it was appropriate? And why are the British media working themselves up into such a jealous frenzy over Biden coming to Ireland? Very poor behaviour.

The caption on the cartoon underlines the political point. His fake Irish thing may be annoying in Dublin but it’s potentially very damaging in Northern Ireland when he’s supposed to be encouraging everyone back to Stormont.

Yes, this is all about the swing voters and the grey US voters, who want to get back to "work hard with dignity" ethics and put family and community values first.

Also provides a good stage for Irish politicians that might be interested in an international career (UN) in the future, those politicians that may need an exit route out of national politics in the not too distant future.

I personally don't like the cartoon, I think if it was 3 minstrels pertaining to look like US presidents, there would be uproar, but as the depictees are old, white, privileged guys, it's hard to get too worked up.

I agree with @Notegoat . It combines his hammy fake Irishness/ anti English sentiment while over there when it the DUP was super sensitive to his claims to be and support Ireland. None of it helped and was seen over here to be almost as bad as the cartoon is perceived in Ireland.

Everything's better in Scotland you know....

I think it was very lazy and didn't really make the point he thought he was making. I also agree that using stereotypes like that is offensive and redundant. And clearly people are offended. If there comes a time when Irish people find caricatures of themselves amusing from British newspapers, I imagine it's some time off.

The investment money he’s waving around will do the job because that’s what really matters in N Ireland but his attitude means that the Unionists will make things more difficult than they needed to be to save their pride.

@Notegoat but being enthusiastic about Ireland doesn't instantly equal being anti-British. I think that's the chip on Arlene's shoulder showing.

Unionists with a chip on their shoulder? Surely not! In Arlene’s case it’s more a shiv hidden under her shoulder pads.

Wasn’t that the genius of the original Good Friday process that it did allow people to move forward whilst saving face. Biden’s enthusiasm for Ireland and the perception he favours one side more than the other matters because the balance is so delicate.
I do think he could have been a bit more aware of the personalities involved. Mind you if he was mixing up the All Blacks and the Black and Tans…

Biden's Irishness isn't hammy or fake. It's old-fashioned Irish American, but then he's quite old - but a very typical descendant of the diaspora. He's visited here often enough, and already knows relatives both in Louth and Mayo and has lots of long-standing connections with Irish politicians. He broke the sod at the Hospice he's visiting today - the relationships are longstanding, and the GFA is important to him.

If Arlene and co (and Peter Brooks and his employers) can't behave when international investors call round, the world will move on without them - that's their problem, not Biden's.

If it had been drawn by an Irish cartoonist for an Irish publication some of those arguments might be valid. When it is drawn by a British cartoonist for a newspaper like the Times and uses the same kind of tropes about Irish people used by British newspapers for centuries to mock the Irish and dehumanize them, yes it should be seen as racist and part of a long history of anti-Irishness in the British media, portraying us as stupid drunken people wedded to oldfashioned beliefs.

You should check out some of the coverage of Biden's trip to Irish to see if people there are rejecting his claims to Irish linkages: he is being feted across the country.

(And Biden is a teetotaller so no Guinness was involved)

I’m an Irish-American living in London for over 20 years.

Biden is cringe. His view of his Irish-ness is hammy. His blatant partiality in a very politically delicate part of the world is injudicious to say the least.

The dig is on him, not the Irish.

I suspect Biden views the 'delicate balance' in NI via his briefings from the FBI, who are keeping a very close eye on the Loyalist narco-gangs (as well as on Kinahan et al).

It's like a depiction of Irish people from a Punch Magazine in the 19th century.

Yeah, because British/English people never take the piss out of themselves by resorting to stereotypes ...

Weird logic.

’Biden's Irishness isn't hammy or fake. It's old-fashioned Irish American’

’He introduces himself as the great-great-grandson of the Blewitts of County Mayo and the Finnegans of County Louth, “who boarded coffin ships to cross the Atlantic more than 165 years ago”’

Those idiots always terrified me.

@Utahthecat is right. Biden is teetotal, but British newspapers do love the Irish-drunk stereotype. The Times probably is trying to satirist Biden, but its using wildly offensive, colonial ideas about Irishness - not Biden''s ideas about Irishness. It's bad (as in weak, ineffective) as satire of Biden, and it's anti Irish.

How are the Irish a 'race'?

I don't know. Biden says some weird stuff, I didn't like it when he said, 'I may be Irish but I'm not stupid'. God, I hate that trope. Those things are hard to shake off and you end up feeling you have something to prove.

He also said something about being the only irishman that doesn't drink. No, Joe.

’its using wildly offensive, colonial ideas about Irishness’

True. They have been used that way. There’s a long history of it. They’re also used by Irish Americans in a positive context eg St Patrick’s day parade in New York.

That's roughly where I would stand. The editors of the Times aren't responsible for monitoring offensive Irish stereotypes anywhere except in their own publication.

So if their cartoonist wants to make a point about Biden's attachment to Ireland being fake or somehow offensive - I don't believe it is - let him find another way to do so.

It's lazy and patronising at best.

True - but the London Times is not an outpost of the Irish diaspora. Context matters.

I would say they knew what they were doing. Obvious swipe at Biden. And kicking Ireland back into place for the benefit of their more chauvinistic readers.

I am not sure if would describe some of the discourse in the British media this week as anti-Irish. But there has definitely been a refusal to recognise Ireland as a sovereign nation (and I mean only the 26 counties).

Well you have been causing problems lately, what with your ruining Boris’s perfect Brexit plan with your existing and being attached to the bit we annexed and then freed from European oppression.

The Unionists still haven’t recovered from helping to push that through with their votes and somehow buying into the bullshit that the border issue would magically sort itself out.

If the UK want to piss off the President of the USA and the many influential people travelling with him that's their business; who needs good international relations after all?

I'm glad he's having a pleasant time, and that the weather has improved in time for tonight's event.

I totally agree although his speech writers created a balanced bland speech for him in Belfast and that's an achievement.
He was obviously quite a liability in NI and it's like a weight has dropped from him now.