Page 16 | AIBU? Would this conversation upset you?

GroundFogDay · 2023-04-14T09:50:48+00:00

DH is currently not talking to me and I think he's being a bit ridiculous. We were talking last night about hypothetical situations, wasn't a serious conversation at first but then he brought one up and asked what I'd do in a situation where both he and DSCs mum had died, he assumed I'd say they'd stay living with me but I answered honestly that they wouldn't and I'd assume would go to some family or another (H doesn't have much family but their mum has some). It got pretty serious then, the conversation, with DH asking me why I wouldn't want them to live with my and our children and again I answered honestly that I wouldn't want to become full time parent to two more children and I didn't think it was my responsibility. He was upset by it, we argued and now he's still not talking to me. AIBU to think he's being silly over a situation that is very very unlikely to ever actually happen?! And I guess AIBU to have said what I said when he asked? I'm surprised in that situation he'd expect *me* to be the one to take on DSC full time rather than their families (DH and exs). I feel ridiculous having an argument over a situation that's not even going to occur. But he says it shows how I really feel i.e. about them not being responsibility. Would you be hurt if your spouse said what I said? YABU you'd be hurt if your spouse said the same. YANBU he shouldn't be expecting it anyway and it's silly to argue over a hypothetical.

ChristmasFluff · 14/04/2023 17:37

I don't even see why this would necessarily be hurtful.

I would never have expected my ex-H wife to become the parent of our son if we both died. He would have gone to one of my sisters, or ex's mother. I love his wife, but there's no biological connection, so why would I expect that? I highly doubt ex-H would have expected that either.

What is WAY worse is him using the silent treatment to try to drag you into line.

Does he realise that's emotional abuse? Does he care?

GnomeDePlume · 14/04/2023 17:37

DH assumed that it would all be easily sorted by @GroundFogDay just taking up the reins. Therefore he didnt need to think about it.

He is sulking because OP has sensibly pointed out that there are other people who might be more suited to this job. Now he is actually going to have to sit down and think about it rather than just leaving it to OP to deal with the situation.

Nordicrain · 14/04/2023 17:47

coffeecupsandwaxmelts · 14/04/2023 17:27

Perhaps, but I wouldn't want to be with someone who'd be desperate to get rid of my kids, kicking them out of their home, if I died. I would want more for my kids than forcing them to share a life with an adult who cared so little for them.

Where does it say OP would be "desperate to kick them out of there home"? She's just said she wouldn't want to become their full-time carer.

And you can care a great deal about someone without wanting to become their sole carer - some of the dramatic language on this thread is quite something and makes me incredibly glad I am not a step-parent - the expectations on them are absolutely crazy.

Well, not "someone". Children that you have lived with shared a home with for 6+ years, that you have played families with, who you have at least to some extent coparented, who are the siblings of your own children. Children who have no other home to go to.

And yes, the OP has made clear she does not expect them to live with her and wants them to go to their mum's family. That is wanting to kick them out of their only remaining home.

coffeecupsandwaxmelts · 14/04/2023 17:55

Nordicrain · 14/04/2023 17:47

Well, not "someone". Children that you have lived with shared a home with for 6+ years, that you have played families with, who you have at least to some extent coparented, who are the siblings of your own children. Children who have no other home to go to.

And yes, the OP has made clear she does not expect them to live with her and wants them to go to their mum's family. That is wanting to kick them out of their only remaining home.

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Expecting someone to take full-time care of your children for the rest of their lives when you haven't even bothered to ask them first is insane to me.

OP is not their parent. She is their dad's wife. She even says in her posts that although she cares about them, she's never been a mother figure to them and that they're closer to their grandparents - so why on earth is she the one expected to take them on full-time?

You're also putting words in her mouth when you say she wants to "kick them out of their remaining home" - she just expects that, long-term, she would not be their full-time carer. She's hardly saying she'll boot them out the day of the funeral and wash her hands of them permanently 🙄

Honestly - this thread is batshit to me. If OP's DH cared so much about what would happen to his children when he died, he should have talked to OP about it before deciding to marry her.

I suspect he was hoping she'd take them on and he wouldn't have to worry about making alternative arrangements - now he's pissed off that he's actually going to have to deal with making a will and sorting things out himself.

Daleksatemyshed · 14/04/2023 17:56

Maybe this might focus your DH's mind on making some provision for his DC, you have two insurance policies, he has none and no will either, he's made no sensible arrangements for his DC's future preferring to think that the Op will just go on as normal.
As usual these threads get more over emotional as the thread goes on, it started with the Op saying she'd presumed the DSC would go their DM's family and has now progressed to her casting them out in the snow empty handed, like some Disney villain.
If this is now such an issue Op your DH needs to talk to his Ex and see what she has in mind, she may have asked someone already, if not, they need to have a sensible talk and ask people. It's a big ask and nobody should just be leaving it to chance.

Nordicrain · 14/04/2023 18:06

coffeecupsandwaxmelts · 14/04/2023 17:55

Expecting someone to take full-time care of your children for the rest of their lives when you haven't even bothered to ask them first is insane to me.

OP is not their parent. She is their dad's wife. She even says in her posts that although she cares about them, she's never been a mother figure to them and that they're closer to their grandparents - so why on earth is she the one expected to take them on full-time?

You're also putting words in her mouth when you say she wants to "kick them out of their remaining home" - she just expects that, long-term, she would not be their full-time carer. She's hardly saying she'll boot them out the day of the funeral and wash her hands of them permanently 🙄

Honestly - this thread is batshit to me. If OP's DH cared so much about what would happen to his children when he died, he should have talked to OP about it before deciding to marry her.

I suspect he was hoping she'd take them on and he wouldn't have to worry about making alternative arrangements - now he's pissed off that he's actually going to have to deal with making a will and sorting things out himself.

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"she just expects that, long-term, she would not be their full-time carer. "

No, she's clearly said the would go to the maternal family and that all she wouold facilitate is a sibling relationship. She has made clear she will not offer them to live in their current home. Even if they were living with her permanently and that was their only and full time home (if their mum died first)... That is, literally, kicking them out of their home.

And it's rubbish to say she's not been a parent. She's lived with those kids since they were 3 and 7 50% of the time, and parents their siblings. They will think of her as some kind of parent, as their family, even if she doesn't.

What's batshit to me is the amount of adults who think it's ok to involve themselves so deeply in small children's lives and then be willing to just disgard them should their romatic relationship break down. It's incredibly mean on the children who will have built bonds with them as some of their primary carers (whether they feel that way or not), and - in the situation we are discussing - be in an extremely devastating position.

I'm soon 40 with my own family who I live with and my mother is dead. But if my dad died now I would be super hurt if my step mum made clear she didn't want anyhting to do with me other than facilitating a relationship with my siblings (which presumably she wouldn't need to do as we are adults).

whumpthereitis · 14/04/2023 18:10

I suppose he could leave her, as some posters think he should, and no longer live full time with any of his children, be liable to pay child support for four children, and be on the look out for a woman that’s willing to take on four children as well as her own, in the event of targeted assassination/the Black Death.

Form an orderly queue, ladies.

funinthesun19 · 14/04/2023 18:10

coffeecupsandwaxmelts · 14/04/2023 17:55

Expecting someone to take full-time care of your children for the rest of their lives when you haven't even bothered to ask them first is insane to me.

OP is not their parent. She is their dad's wife. She even says in her posts that although she cares about them, she's never been a mother figure to them and that they're closer to their grandparents - so why on earth is she the one expected to take them on full-time?

You're also putting words in her mouth when you say she wants to "kick them out of their remaining home" - she just expects that, long-term, she would not be their full-time carer. She's hardly saying she'll boot them out the day of the funeral and wash her hands of them permanently 🙄

Honestly - this thread is batshit to me. If OP's DH cared so much about what would happen to his children when he died, he should have talked to OP about it before deciding to marry her.

I suspect he was hoping she'd take them on and he wouldn't have to worry about making alternative arrangements - now he's pissed off that he's actually going to have to deal with making a will and sorting things out himself.

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Very well put in everything you’ve said.

Expecting someone to take full-time care of your children for the rest of their lives when you haven't even bothered to ask them first is insane to me.

OP is not their parent. She is their dad's wife. She even says in her posts that although she cares about them, she's never been a mother figure to them and that they're closer to their grandparents - so why on earth is she the one expected to take them on full-time?

Some people see stepmum as nothing but an extension of the father. So she is default everything in his place just because she married him. That’s how it is while he’s alive too. Everything is just assumed.

whumpthereitis · 14/04/2023 18:14

Nordicrain · 14/04/2023 18:06

"she just expects that, long-term, she would not be their full-time carer. "

No, she's clearly said the would go to the maternal family and that all she wouold facilitate is a sibling relationship. She has made clear she will not offer them to live in their current home. Even if they were living with her permanently and that was their only and full time home (if their mum died first)... That is, literally, kicking them out of their home.

And it's rubbish to say she's not been a parent. She's lived with those kids since they were 3 and 7 50% of the time, and parents their siblings. They will think of her as some kind of parent, as their family, even if she doesn't.

What's batshit to me is the amount of adults who think it's ok to involve themselves so deeply in small children's lives and then be willing to just disgard them should their romatic relationship break down. It's incredibly mean on the children who will have built bonds with them as some of their primary carers (whether they feel that way or not), and - in the situation we are discussing - be in an extremely devastating position.

I'm soon 40 with my own family who I live with and my mother is dead. But if my dad died now I would be super hurt if my step mum made clear she didn't want anyhting to do with me other than facilitating a relationship with my siblings (which presumably she wouldn't need to do as we are adults).

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No, you consider her a parent to these children. That doesn’t require neither her nor the children to share the same viewpoint. The bottom line is that she’s not a parent to these children. Marrying this man made her his wife, it didn’t give her any rights over or responsibility for his children.

The responsibility for these children belongs to the parents. If he wanted a partner that considered his children hers then it was up to him to establish that before he married her. She is not obliged to consider these children more than their actual parent does.

coffeecupsandwaxmelts · 14/04/2023 18:16

Nordicrain · 14/04/2023 18:06

"she just expects that, long-term, she would not be their full-time carer. "

No, she's clearly said the would go to the maternal family and that all she wouold facilitate is a sibling relationship. She has made clear she will not offer them to live in their current home. Even if they were living with her permanently and that was their only and full time home (if their mum died first)... That is, literally, kicking them out of their home.

And it's rubbish to say she's not been a parent. She's lived with those kids since they were 3 and 7 50% of the time, and parents their siblings. They will think of her as some kind of parent, as their family, even if she doesn't.

What's batshit to me is the amount of adults who think it's ok to involve themselves so deeply in small children's lives and then be willing to just disgard them should their romatic relationship break down. It's incredibly mean on the children who will have built bonds with them as some of their primary carers (whether they feel that way or not), and - in the situation we are discussing - be in an extremely devastating position.

I'm soon 40 with my own family who I live with and my mother is dead. But if my dad died now I would be super hurt if my step mum made clear she didn't want anyhting to do with me other than facilitating a relationship with my siblings (which presumably she wouldn't need to do as we are adults).

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Why on earth should she be expected to have them living with her though? Because she married their dad? That still doesn't make her their parent, no matter how much you might want to try and put her in that role.

And yes, adults should think about the future - so maybe their dad should have had this conversation BEFORE letting her get so involved? I'm really not sure why OP is being painted as some kind of horrendous villain here - these children have two parents who should have had this conversation a LONG time ago. It's not her responsibility for plan for his children's future.

OP has no responsibility to her step-children in ANY legal sense. She has no legal responsibility or rights to them while both parents are alive, yet for some reason, when they die, everyone on here expects her to suddenly become their full-time carer overnight.

As I said, batshit.

Pluvia · 14/04/2023 18:17

Perhaps, but I wouldn't want to be with someone who'd be desperate to get rid of my kids, kicking them out of their home, if I died. I would want more for my kids than forcing them to share a life with an adult who cared so little for them.

OP is not desperate to get rid of her step-children and is not talking about kicking them out of their home, she's just not willing to be go along with her husband's assumption that she'll happily become a single parent of four and look after the children for her entire life.

On the basis of a theoretical discussion about a million-to-one situation, would you really leave a second marriage and and second family (with all the financial and emotional pain that would involve) in order to look for a third wife who'll say she'll look after the kids if you and their mother die — but could change her mind at any stage, or leave you a few years down the line, or die? Frankly what woman would be idiot enough to take on a man who's already got four children and two ex-wives?

Nordicrain · 14/04/2023 18:19

whumpthereitis · 14/04/2023 18:14

No, you consider her a parent to these children. That doesn’t require neither her nor the children to share the same viewpoint. The bottom line is that she’s not a parent to these children. Marrying this man made her his wife, it didn’t give her any rights over or responsibility for his children.

The responsibility for these children belongs to the parents. If he wanted a partner that considered his children hers then it was up to him to establish that before he married her. She is not obliged to consider these children more than their actual parent does.

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This I agree with:

If he wanted a partner that considered his children hers then it was up to him to establish that before he married her.

This issue isn't just on OP. I think a parent prepared to make their children share a life with someone who doesn't genuinely care about them is doing the children a huge disservice.

This I don't agree with:

She is not obliged to consider these children more than their actual parent does.

It's not more than their parent does. The parent(s) are dead. I think any person willingly and knowingly sharing a life with a child is obliged to consider them and their wellbeing very carefully indeed. Which includes no turfing them out of their home and excluding them from their remaining famiy when they have just - hypotheically - become orphans.

And children - espeically small children- form bonds within the family they live in, and the people who provide care for them long term. Whether that carer genuinely loves them or not.

Nordicrain · 14/04/2023 18:20

Pluvia · 14/04/2023 18:17

Perhaps, but I wouldn't want to be with someone who'd be desperate to get rid of my kids, kicking them out of their home, if I died. I would want more for my kids than forcing them to share a life with an adult who cared so little for them.

OP is not desperate to get rid of her step-children and is not talking about kicking them out of their home, she's just not willing to be go along with her husband's assumption that she'll happily become a single parent of four and look after the children for her entire life.

On the basis of a theoretical discussion about a million-to-one situation, would you really leave a second marriage and and second family (with all the financial and emotional pain that would involve) in order to look for a third wife who'll say she'll look after the kids if you and their mother die — but could change her mind at any stage, or leave you a few years down the line, or die? Frankly what woman would be idiot enough to take on a man who's already got four children and two ex-wives?

Yes it's hypothetical, but that's what she's said. She doesn't want them to live with her and she only wants to faciliate a sibling relationship.

For me it wouldn't be aboue the hypotheical. But it would really tell me something about what my partner thought of my kids generally.

funinthesun19 · 14/04/2023 18:22

Batshit is definitely the right word for some comments on this thread.

Nordicrain · 14/04/2023 18:23

coffeecupsandwaxmelts · 14/04/2023 18:16

Why on earth should she be expected to have them living with her though? Because she married their dad? That still doesn't make her their parent, no matter how much you might want to try and put her in that role.

And yes, adults should think about the future - so maybe their dad should have had this conversation BEFORE letting her get so involved? I'm really not sure why OP is being painted as some kind of horrendous villain here - these children have two parents who should have had this conversation a LONG time ago. It's not her responsibility for plan for his children's future.

OP has no responsibility to her step-children in ANY legal sense. She has no legal responsibility or rights to them while both parents are alive, yet for some reason, when they die, everyone on here expects her to suddenly become their full-time carer overnight.

As I said, batshit.

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No, not in a legal sense. But as I said, where you knowlingly and willingly live and take part in small children's lives in the long term they will form a bond with you. I think there is a moral obligation to not just abandon them when they are extremely vulnerable and alone. They will have lost both their parents. And their home. And the third person who was a primary caregiver to them. And living with their siblings.

I genuinely think if you could so easily discard children then you shouldn't move in with them/ marry their parent in the first place.

coffeecupsandwaxmelts · 14/04/2023 18:23

Nordicrain · 14/04/2023 18:20

Yes it's hypothetical, but that's what she's said. She doesn't want them to live with her and she only wants to faciliate a sibling relationship.

For me it wouldn't be aboue the hypotheical. But it would really tell me something about what my partner thought of my kids generally.

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I suspect there are very, very people out there who would agree to permanently parent someone else's children on their own.

Also, in the kindest way, they could change their mind once you die and there wouldn't be anything you can do about it. You can't force someone to become a parent.

coffeecupsandwaxmelts · 14/04/2023 18:25

Nordicrain · 14/04/2023 18:23

No, not in a legal sense. But as I said, where you knowlingly and willingly live and take part in small children's lives in the long term they will form a bond with you. I think there is a moral obligation to not just abandon them when they are extremely vulnerable and alone. They will have lost both their parents. And their home. And the third person who was a primary caregiver to them. And living with their siblings.

I genuinely think if you could so easily discard children then you shouldn't move in with them/ marry their parent in the first place.

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OP hasn't said she's going to abandon or discard them - that's you putting words in her mouth again

Stop trying to paint her as some kind of villain. All of this is their dad's responsibility. You know, their actual parent.

whumpthereitis · 14/04/2023 18:25

Nordicrain · 14/04/2023 18:19

This I agree with:

If he wanted a partner that considered his children hers then it was up to him to establish that before he married her.

This issue isn't just on OP. I think a parent prepared to make their children share a life with someone who doesn't genuinely care about them is doing the children a huge disservice.

This I don't agree with:

She is not obliged to consider these children more than their actual parent does.

It's not more than their parent does. The parent(s) are dead. I think any person willingly and knowingly sharing a life with a child is obliged to consider them and their wellbeing very carefully indeed. Which includes no turfing them out of their home and excluding them from their remaining famiy when they have just - hypotheically - become orphans.

And children - espeically small children- form bonds within the family they live in, and the people who provide care for them long term. Whether that carer genuinely loves them or not.

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The issue isn’t on OP at all. She’s been quite clear that her relationship with them isn’t parental. The husband, instead of asking her, decided to assume. His assumption being wrong is entirely a ‘him’ problem.

and yes, when you think OP should have entered a relationship with her DH only if she was willing to take on their children as her own, despite the fact that the parent in question didn’t even bother to ask her if she was, then you absolutely are asking her to have more consideration for them than their actual father.

SchoolTripDrama · 14/04/2023 18:26

I think I'd be reconsidering my marriage to you if you'd agreed to become step parent to my children and you then said that if I and my DC's other parent passed away, you wouldn't keep your step DC! That's appalling. You're their stepmother and they would've just lost their parent! You're telling me that you'd also make them move out of their home as well???? Away from their half siblings????

whumpthereitis · 14/04/2023 18:28

Nordicrain · 14/04/2023 18:23

No, not in a legal sense. But as I said, where you knowlingly and willingly live and take part in small children's lives in the long term they will form a bond with you. I think there is a moral obligation to not just abandon them when they are extremely vulnerable and alone. They will have lost both their parents. And their home. And the third person who was a primary caregiver to them. And living with their siblings.

I genuinely think if you could so easily discard children then you shouldn't move in with them/ marry their parent in the first place.

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“I think there is a moral obligation”

“I genuinely think if you…”

That’s nice and everything, but what exactly does that have to do with OP, or indeed anyone else?

Nordicrain · 14/04/2023 18:28

whumpthereitis · 14/04/2023 18:25

The issue isn’t on OP at all. She’s been quite clear that her relationship with them isn’t parental. The husband, instead of asking her, decided to assume. His assumption being wrong is entirely a ‘him’ problem.

and yes, when you think OP should have entered a relationship with her DH only if she was willing to take on their children as her own, despite the fact that the parent in question didn’t even bother to ask her if she was, then you absolutely are asking her to have more consideration for them than their actual father.

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He shouldn't have assumed. But maybe he thought the fact she had been willing to play happy families for 6+ years meant she genuinely cared about them.

I also don't get why people keep insisting OP hasn't said she wants to kick them out/ get rid. She's literally said they won't live with her, they'll "go to" the materal family, and the extent of her involvement going forward will be to faciliate a sibling relationship. So kind of her 🙄

Nordicrain · 14/04/2023 18:28

whumpthereitis · 14/04/2023 18:28

“I think there is a moral obligation”

“I genuinely think if you…”

That’s nice and everything, but what exactly does that have to do with OP, or indeed anyone else?

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About as much as your opinion on the matter I would think...

Pluvia · 14/04/2023 18:29

It's not more than their parent does. The parent(s) are dead. I think any person willingly and knowingly sharing a life with a child is obliged to consider them and their wellbeing very carefully indeed. Which includes no turfing them out of their home and excluding them from their remaining famiy when they have just - hypotheically - become orphans.

Nothing the OP has said has indicated that she wouldn't consider their wellbeing carefully. She hasn't mentioned turfing them out of the home.

You don't seem to get it. She has no legal rights over the children and wouldn't even if her husband died. She's not their parent or next of kin. As previous posters have pointed out, she has no right to discipline or make major decisions on their behalf even if both their parents are dead. Social services and a court would have to be involved and if the grandparents or an aunt or uncle on the father's or mother's family wanted to take the children they would likely be favoured because they are family. OP is merely their late father's second wife.

It's really shocking how women are assumed to be willing to take on massive caring responsibilities but have no rights. Not even the right to say 'No, I really don't want this'. And if they do this, as OP has, they're vilified — by other women who should know better.

funinthesun19 · 14/04/2023 18:30

SchoolTripDrama · 14/04/2023 18:26

I think I'd be reconsidering my marriage to you if you'd agreed to become step parent to my children and you then said that if I and my DC's other parent passed away, you wouldn't keep your step DC! That's appalling. You're their stepmother and they would've just lost their parent! You're telling me that you'd also make them move out of their home as well???? Away from their half siblings????

I think in OP’s shoes I’d be reconsidering the relationship too after this.

whumpthereitis · 14/04/2023 18:30

Nordicrain · 14/04/2023 18:28

He shouldn't have assumed. But maybe he thought the fact she had been willing to play happy families for 6+ years meant she genuinely cared about them.

I also don't get why people keep insisting OP hasn't said she wants to kick them out/ get rid. She's literally said they won't live with her, they'll "go to" the materal family, and the extent of her involvement going forward will be to faciliate a sibling relationship. So kind of her 🙄

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Then he’s an idiot if he merely ‘thought’ and didn’t bother to have a conversation with her. Still not her problem.

Yes, they would go to their blood relatives they have an established and close relationship with. Meanwhile, she would be focused on raising her own children. Sounds fine.