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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is a serious error and the resolution doesn’t really cut it

438 replies

Myinterestingnewpath · 13/04/2023 08:01

Visited a well known chain restaurant, early in the week so it wasn’t busy, only about six tables tables taken. I was with my daughter, asked if I could have a table instead of a booth, as I have an assistance dog. My dog is a small/medium size, and was wearing his harness. I got asked if he was a guide dog, I said no an assistance dog. He then asked what that meant. I explained that the dog helps me with tasks that help me live my daily life. He then asked what exactly that meant. So I explained I have neurological damage after breaking my neck, and I can’t feel my fingers so drop things and the dog retrieves them. I also explained I have balance issues, so bending down without falling over is a problem. I then got asked if it was a guide dog again. I said no. He then said you can’t come in because it’s not a guide dog and you’re not blind!! I am not a confrontational person so I just said ok, we’ll just go the restaurant next door, (which is owned by the same group) as they always welcome me. The next day I rang head office and they admitted that what he did is unlawful, and they would do some staff training. Turning away a disabled person because of their equipment is a serious issue. Dogs are classed as auxiliary aids same as wheelchairs. I have been offered £20, I think they’ve got off lightly. What do mumsnetters think?

YABU-restaurants can choose who dines
YANBU-it’s discrimination

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Sirzy · 15/04/2023 10:56

DotAndCarryOne2 · 15/04/2023 07:38

And it speaks to how little regard there is for disabled peoples’ rights that the staff member wasn’t trained before he was customer facing.

Show quote history

But realistically a waiter - or anyone! - can’t be expected to understand the ins and outs of every disability and as such sometimes things will go wrong.

as has been pointed out “assistance dogs” has become a bit of a grey area which won’t have helped.

the restaurant have acknowledged the error and now will hopefully work to improve things. Previous poster made a good suggestion of contacting the organisation the OPs dog is registered with so they can offer further support and training to the venue.

Thelnebriati · 15/04/2023 12:13

You don't have to know the ins and outs of every disability, you shouldn't ask. Disabled people have the right to ask for adjustments, they are not required to explain themselves.
Dogs don't have to be registered and there are no lists of disabilities or disabled people. The EHRC has produced a leaflet for business owners that explains everything.

If the dog does not behave like an assistance dog, if it causes a nuisance, the business can ask the owner to remove it.

SiliconHeaven · 15/04/2023 12:17

I wonder what the restaurant would have made of the emotional support peacock. At what stage does questioning a persons disability or need become acceptable?
I’m a wheelchair user, I’m also quite fat (like food, don’t get a lot of exercise)

I am regularly told that I shouldn’t be allowed to use a wheelchair as I’m ‘not disabled, just fat’.

To think this is a serious error and the resolution doesn’t really cut it
PussBilledDuckyPlait · 15/04/2023 12:26

SiliconHeaven · 15/04/2023 12:17

I wonder what the restaurant would have made of the emotional support peacock. At what stage does questioning a persons disability or need become acceptable?
I’m a wheelchair user, I’m also quite fat (like food, don’t get a lot of exercise)

I am regularly told that I shouldn’t be allowed to use a wheelchair as I’m ‘not disabled, just fat’.

I think it's reasonable to distinguish assistance animals that are there to meet physical or safety needs (as in the OP's dog) from animals that are there to meet an emotional need.

Yawningalldaylong · 15/04/2023 14:37

me109f · 15/04/2023 10:45

Understandable mistake. Pictoosh has hit the nail I think. I have never heard of an assistance dog, and if you had said it was a sort of guide dog there would have not been a problem, I suspect.
The waiter was just a bit ignorant, and had probably been told no dogs allowed other than guide dogs. He was just obeying instructions and you should not take offence or try and shame the business. I think they responded well with an apology and remuneration.

I shocked that people haven't heard of an assistance dog) and slightly embarrassed for them). This lack of awareness and training is the issue. There are all kinds of assistance dogs, they are regularly in the community and on tv. They are mentioned in the Equalities Act 2010, so 13 years ago!!

A guide dog is an assistance dog but not all assistance dogs are guide dogs.

ComtesseDeSpair · 15/04/2023 14:56

If the dog does not behave like an assistance dog, if it causes a nuisance, the business can ask the owner to remove it.

Can they? Genuine question.

asdfgasdfg · 15/04/2023 16:49

There is a blind BBC reporter who was turned away at 2 different Tescos because of his guide dog. Had a body cam so went public. Tesco said they'd improve training. I was really surprised as I thought everyone knew that assistance dogs were allowed anywhere

DotAndCarryOne2 · 15/04/2023 18:03

me109f · 15/04/2023 10:45

Understandable mistake. Pictoosh has hit the nail I think. I have never heard of an assistance dog, and if you had said it was a sort of guide dog there would have not been a problem, I suspect.
The waiter was just a bit ignorant, and had probably been told no dogs allowed other than guide dogs. He was just obeying instructions and you should not take offence or try and shame the business. I think they responded well with an apology and remuneration.

Nope. Not understandable at all. The waiter is customer facing and should have had equality training before customer facing. That’s entirely down to the company and is an example of just how little weight is given to the Equality Act. Why should the OP not take offence ? She was discriminated against on the grounds of her disability and the response is not proportionate to that.

DotAndCarryOne2 · 15/04/2023 18:04

ComtesseDeSpair · 15/04/2023 14:56

If the dog does not behave like an assistance dog, if it causes a nuisance, the business can ask the owner to remove it.

Can they? Genuine question.

Yes, they can if the dog behaves inappropriately. But it’s irrelevant in this case because there wasn’t a problem with the dog.

DotAndCarryOne2 · 15/04/2023 18:08

SiliconHeaven · 15/04/2023 12:17

I wonder what the restaurant would have made of the emotional support peacock. At what stage does questioning a persons disability or need become acceptable?
I’m a wheelchair user, I’m also quite fat (like food, don’t get a lot of exercise)

I am regularly told that I shouldn’t be allowed to use a wheelchair as I’m ‘not disabled, just fat’.

The answer to your question is that questioning a persons’ disability or need is not acceptable at all. That’s what the Equality Act 2010 was designed to stop. I’m a wheelchair user myself and if I was questioned as to the need for my wheelchair my answer would be that my condition is between myself and my doctor and it’s none of anyone else’s’ business. And ‘emotional support peacock’ ? Really ?

DotAndCarryOne2 · 15/04/2023 18:18

Sirzy · 15/04/2023 10:56

But realistically a waiter - or anyone! - can’t be expected to understand the ins and outs of every disability and as such sometimes things will go wrong.

as has been pointed out “assistance dogs” has become a bit of a grey area which won’t have helped.

the restaurant have acknowledged the error and now will hopefully work to improve things. Previous poster made a good suggestion of contacting the organisation the OPs dog is registered with so they can offer further support and training to the venue.

Show quote history

They don’t have to understand the ins and outs of anyone’s disability - it’s none of their business and it’s not acceptable to ask. Would you like to have to explain a medical condition, in public, to someone with no medical training ? Staff who are customer facing should be aware of the requirements of the Equality Act 2010 - it doesn’t just cover disability, but race, ethnicity, sexual orientation and religion. The point many people have tried to make is that it’s very difficult for disabled people to access recourse when they have been discriminated against, because this form of prejudice is not taken seriously enough. And assistance dogs are not a grey area, they are mentioned in the Act and there is EHRC guidance for employers to refer to.

DotAndCarryOne2 · 15/04/2023 18:27

2ManyPjs · 15/04/2023 08:57

And where did I say it was less valid? Stop comparing them like there's some kind of discrimination hierarchy!

Show quote history

Utter bullshit using it as a comparison.

This is what you said and then accused the poster of being ignorant about race discrimination. How else would you like to me interpret it. It’s the same knee jerk reaction as someone upthread who resorted to f’ing and blinding in response to same the quote you objected to. Whether you like it or not, for the disabled there is a discrimination hierarchy and they are somewhere near the bottom.

DotAndCarryOne2 · 15/04/2023 18:33

TheHoover · 15/04/2023 07:53

@DotAndCarryOne2
er this was the first response to ‘what resolution were you hoping for’:

That’s an interesting jump to public flogging. I think the cost of a meal for two would’ve been more appropriate.

so £20 is an insult and minimising but £40 is sufficient recognition that this was a big enough mistake….?????

Not what she was saying.

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