To think this is a serious error and the resolution doesn’t really cut it

[Myinterestingnewpath]

Visited a well known chain restaurant, early in the week so it wasn’t busy, only about six tables tables taken. I was with my daughter, asked if I could have a table instead of a booth, as I have an assistance dog. My dog is a small/medium size, and was wearing his harness. I got asked if he was a guide dog, I said no an assistance dog. He then asked what that meant. I explained that the dog helps me with tasks that help me live my daily life. He then asked what exactly that meant. So I explained I have neurological damage after breaking my neck, and I can’t feel my fingers so drop things and the dog retrieves them. I also explained I have balance issues, so bending down without falling over is a problem. I then got asked if it was a guide dog again. I said no. He then said you can’t come in because it’s not a guide dog and you’re not blind!! I am not a confrontational person so I just said ok, we’ll just go the restaurant next door, (which is owned by the same group) as they always welcome me. The next day I rang head office and they admitted that what he did is unlawful, and they would do some staff training. Turning away a disabled person because of their equipment is a serious issue. Dogs are classed as auxiliary aids same as wheelchairs. I have been offered £20, I think they’ve got off lightly. What do mumsnetters think?

YABU-restaurants can choose who dines
YANBU-it’s discrimination

You absolutely have claimed to know about what it is like to experience being disabled. In fact, you went further than that, you dismissed it. See here from your post of 16.12:

“always feel so confident in declaring things like:

it’s the one that seems to carry the least in the way of penalties.

Disabled people are attacked, abused and ridiculed and the police are reluctant to prosecute as hate crimes.

it's the only acceptable form of prejudice”

Do you not see that what you’ve done here is dismiss the poster’s assertion that hate crimes against disabled people are often not prosecuted? Do you recall reading or hearing much about prosecutions taken against discrimination against the disabled? Because I can assure you, they’re not abundant.

Many disabled people have experience of people happily overlooking them and discriminating against them and the prevailing attitude to be indifference towards that, rather than outrage. But you wouldn’t know about that because you don’t live it, and it’s not a big issue for anyone else, it seems.

Disabled people want it to be taken seriously when they’re discriminated against. It’s not that they’re saying racism is tackled perfectly. It’s that they’re saying it is their perception that discrimination against the disabled is taken even less seriously than some other forms of discrimination. There’s a difference.

You can swear at me all you like, if you think that’s acceptable. It’s clearly struck a nerve. All the more baffling why you don’t understand that disabled people don’t enjoy being discriminated against either.

I think you've totally misread some people's intentions. I personally was wondering HOW ("how" meaning "method", not "how on earth" in a disbelieving sense) someone who needs an assistance dog to help them trains a puppy themselves from scratch in the first place, as puppies are very demanding and it doesn't seem to fit the lifestyle of someone with needs. That's a valid point as I only know about guide dogs and the way they are trained. I had no idea about OP's injuries, her recovery or what help she had prior to the point of the dog being fully trained, hence my interest. The fact that I asked does not mean that I disbelieved that it was possible.

I do get fed up of people thinking the worst of others on here these days when they're often simply trying to understand someone else's position. It never used to be like this here. You used to be able to ask people about the reality of living a different life to your own, particularly with regards to disability and LEARN something from them relayng their experiences without getting accused of accusing THEM of lying, or spreading bile. Without posters being professionally offended on the OP's behalf and apologising to them for the "appalling" act of having to disclose personal information. We will never learn from each other if disabilities, especially hidden ones, and the things that help people to manage life with them, are not talked about openly, on a DISCUSSION forum.

The OP has kindly explained now how she came to need the dog, how it became trained, how it helps her. Perhaps now as a result of this thread we all understand a bit more about how and why assistance dogs might be used. There are a few posters that had not even heard of them, and I bet most of us had had no idea before that people can train them themselves.

That was to @MarkWithaC

I'm sorry, who has said that? You're being ridiculous and stirring things up for the sake of it.

They should just call them all one term to prevent confusion. They’re all ultimately guide dogs or assistance dogs or working dogs or whatever.

I agree with this. It shouldn't be necessary, but because some people are horrible, selfish idiots (see the Guardian piece linked earlier) they make it difficult for people with genuinely needed assistance dogs to be taken seriously.

We have to navigate the world as it is, not the world as it should be.

I'm afraid I find your justification very disingenuous. You could easily have phrased your questions so that it was clear that you wondered how she did it, rather than sounding like you were sceptical that she did it.

And the closing 'Perhaps now as a result of this thread we all understand a bit more about how and why assistance dogs might be used' I also find disingenuous, and very cynical indeed.

In my shop we have a young couple who insist their chihuahua is an assistance dog . The dog does not have an official jacket. The owner has seizures and apparently the dog can tell when one is going to happen. Not sure how this works when he is being walked by the partner !

There is a lot of misunderstanding about blue badges. So many people don't know that the driver themself doesn't have to be disabled, for example. They could easily be dropping a disabled passenger off. They are also only for use for on-street parking. Supermarket and hospital parking will have their own rules (disabled spaces etc).

If the council has issued a blue badge then they have assessed the need for one and approved its use. Why anyone would think they know better than the council I have no idea.

Well I'm sad for you that you're such a cynical person. And also that you are quick to make assumptions about people and jump on someone if you've misunderstood the intent of a question rather than asking them to clarify what they mean first. Like I said, MN used to be the place I came to for open, honest and patient discussion. It used to be a place where if someone came to a thread displaying an opinion that suggested a lack of knowledge of something, an interchange would take place, and that person would often have their opinion changed, for the better. It was so refreshing and a true place of education and influence.

Lately it has just turned into people jumping to dramatic conclusions prematurely and rather than trying to influence someone's opinion with a view to changing it they just start throwing accusations wrong. It's a shame because it's a lost opportunity.

There have been a few posts that have been really helpful. Whoever posted this link - thankyou. https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/assistance-dogs-a-guide-for-all-businesses.pdf

It was really informative and I learned things I didn't know, and followed to the link to the website Sherlock Hounds which explained exactly how the dogs are trained for anyone, like me, who is interested.

Thankyou to the OP for giving more details about exactly how she managed to go from needing an assistance dog to having a fully trained one, and what it means to her have one. I'm sorry about the loss of the life you had before, including your horses, and salute you for finding solutions to help you adjust to your new life.

Oh invalidation of non visible disabilities definitely common, but I was thinking more of spiteful comments like I feel sorry for your dog etc, and variations I've seen on MN - I feel sorry for your husband/mum/children - said with malice

Blue badges are also required to park in disabled spaces in supermarkets, and in hospitals - same rules apply as on street. Where supermarket/hospital car parks are run by independent companies they will fine those parking in disabled spaces without a valid blue badge.

I agree with you about the misunderstandings though. Another one is that the blue badge has to be displayed all the time. I pulled into a supermarket space once, and was rummaging in my bag for the badge and clock - was jolted by a rap on the window and someone pointing out that the space was for badge holders only. When I showed them the badge they were insistent that it should be displayed at all times and in the end I had to show them the handbook which advised the exact opposite, for a number of reasons, including inappropriate use by any other users of the car, and the high number of badge thefts. It should only be displayed once the holder has parked.

I think where people think they know better than the authorising body is when the disability isn’t immediately obvious. I don’t look disabled until I get out of the car - I’m a wheelchair user, and it’s not apparent when I’m behind the wheel. I’ve been challenged many times and some people have insisted I tell them what my disability is, presumably so they can ‘decide’ if I’m worthy of the space !! I actually used to explain, but not any more. I just smile and show them the badge and tell them it’s been legally issued to me and that’s all they need to know, unless they’re traffic or law enforcement. I’ve been told I ‘don’t look disabled’ and my answer is always to ask how they think someone disabled should look. I’m amazed at how persistent some people can be - it’s like they feel perfectly entitled to grill you for every detail.

Go back and tell them what you want,,..

Having re-read the OP’s first post, I think a lot of people have misunderstood the question. I don’t think she’s after material compensation, it’s more that she feels the whole incident wasn’t given the weight it deserved, given that it was a form of discrimination. Granted, they have said that the employee will be trained, but I think it’s a measure of the lack of awareness of and adherence to the Equality Act that the employer clearly didn’t ensure that he had received the appropriate training before customer facing. Disability discrimination of this type is common and it is minimised, and the OP was right to stand up for her rights.

But what’s to stop me using a disabled toilet, parking in a disabled space, jumping a queue, bringing an animal to an inappropriate place - just for the hell of it? If no one is ever asked to demonstrate their need, then we can all claim a need. Then the people who are genuine lose out.

@KittyAlfred OP demonstrated her need and was still turned away

@DotAndCarryOne2 go back and tell the company what you want.

Say I'm not after financial gain, I want you to acknowledge you acted illegally and perhaps this was due to poor training. I don't even know if non office jobs have training on diversity etc.

Say you want to speak to someone senior?

I’m not disabled in any way, but I like to park near the entrance at places. Would you be happy for me to take the last remaining disabled space in a car park, if I didn’t have a blue badge? I could just say I had a hidden disability, and you were being rude to ask what it was. And no, I wouldn’t have a badge, my word should be enough. You’d just have to accept seeing me take the space, and you would either have to manage a longer walk, or go home and come back later. Would you be happy with that?
Blue badges were designed to reduce the risk of this happening, and that’s why people are saying that “self declaration” shouldn’t be enough.

Did she have paperwork? I missed that. Sorry.

The Equality Act 2010 exists so that disabled people don’t have to answer those questions ad nauseam. If you attempted to park in a disabled space without a badge you would be fined, if you used a disabled toilet and there was no obvious disability you would probably be challenged and all you’d need to say was that you have a disability that’s not obvious - no one would question you as to what that disability was. Guide and assistance dogs are allowed in places that don’t normally allow dogs, and the reasons for them are, in the main, obvious. And I don’t know any disabled people who routinely jump queues just because they’re disabled. Can you imagine how hard life would get for people whose lives are already difficult, if the law allowed them to be grilled about their disability before being allowed to participate in normal life ? I would spend my life explaining myself.

Is this an officially trained assistance dog or not. I think that makes a difference to the opinions to be fair.

That’s not how it works, and it’s not what blue badges were designed to do. They were designed so that genuinely disabled people would know they have conveniently placed designated parking close to amenities. To park in a disabled space, you need a blue badge. That’s how people know you’re disabled, and it doesn’t need explanation. You can’t just park in one because you feel like it. I’m a disabled driver and I acknowledge the fact that if I forget to take my badge out when I leave the house, I won’t be able to park in a disabled space - my disability is not the get out of jail card you seem to think it is.

It’s already been established that it doesn’t need to be - there’s a link upthread somewhere.

@DotAndCarryOne2 but surely that means that anyone can take their dog as an 'assistance dog' without being properly trained. My child has autism and they love the dog. Does that mean we can call him an assistance dog and take home everywhere with us?

It's really impressive how you're getting on with your life OP. I think I would have given up on going to restaurants myself in your position. Being honest, I've never heard of an assistance dog before. I'd probably have been as confused as the waiter why you needed the dog. I don't think a disability needs to be visible, but some kind of special collar or tag for the dog would help. Not quite sure why people are so against this idea.