Friends encouraging separation?

[theblue]

if your friend suddenly told you they were separating out of the blue, would you not care to ask what’s happened and to say you hope things can be worked out?

DH has suddenly decided he wants to separate (whilst he’s going through depression). To me it’s completely out of the blue. Before he became depressed we were talking about how our relationship was the best it had ever been. I’ve seen messages from a couple of friends responding to the news saying that it’s probably best for the children. No questions about what’s going on even though he claims he’s never told anyone that he’s unhappy. That’s hard to believe. I’m really confused about what he’s been telling them. Divorce may be good for children if there’s a toxic environment at home eg constant fighting, violence. Why would they jump straight to saying it’s good for the children

The puzzling thing there is why not end it when it was actually bad and not years later when things got much better.

Sometimes you don't realise how bad things were until they get better.

Unfortunately, not all marriages recover from bad patches - they may appear to on the outside, but once the trust is gone, it can be impossible to get it back.

He MUST have talked to them about being unhappy.

I wouldn't read too much into him saying separation rather than divorce. Separating ends the relationship. Divorce ends the marriage. Both mean it's over. Even if couple's counselling does happen now, which I really doubt it will, it won't matter if he has made the decision that your relationship is over. It will become more about helping you accept that this is happening and that it's the right decision.

I'm so sorry, but I'm not surprised by this. I think some men are so basic, that if they even mention it, most men would encourage them to leave.

Talk to him.

OP sorry to hear you’re going through this. You’ve had some good advice here. While I totally understand the need for answers and the desire to delve into the whys and the hows etc, the best gift you can give toyour future self and your children is to accept the situation as soon as possible, and take back control.

Ive been where you are and it’s horrible. You start to question so many things and it’s a real hit to your heart and your self esteem. Make sure to take good care of yourself - nutritious wholesome food, rest, long soaks in the bath, exercise, whatever makes you feel like you’re looking after yourself.

Tell your husband that you accept his request to separate and ask him to leave while you work out the logistics of the divorce. This will immediately put him on the back foot as he will be expecting you to beg and plead and be upset, not to be decisive and acting with confidence!

Once he’s out you may well find you’re happier and a split is in your best interests. Even if this doesn’t happen it will give you the space you need to have a clear head, get legal advice, gather all the relevant info and documents and set you up for the best possible position in divorce. Only communicate with DH about arrangements for the children. In my experience he will come crawling back after a couple of months when he realises he’s still not happy. Hopefully by then you will see you’re happier without him (I stupidly took mine back but it was never the same and I ended up instigating a final split a year after we reunited). You will eventually have to deal with the emotional fall out but try to put this on the back burner for now so you can get yourself in a stronger position.

Now is the time to gather your support network of family and friends - they will get you through!

@Feelinadequate23 Thank you. It’s good to hear from someone who has been through similar. Was your husband also unhappy, if you don’t mind sharing?
I’ve been really looking after myself over the last year and I don’t want to let that slip.
I’m feeling more and more that I do not to take some control otherwise I will just spiral into a very dark place. Thank you to everyone who has helped me to see that.

@theblue

So really there is nobody here that thinks that this is something I should try to work through? Sometimes I find myself thinking “Through sickness and in health”.

I'm not a big fan of "working through" at the best of times. I think usually "working through" is a euphemism for flogging a dead horse (see also "working on the marriage"). When something's not working, it's not working and no amount of discussion or debate or post-hoc analysis will change someone's perspective.

If this were just a rough patch it might be possible to get through it with counselling, if and only if he were keen to do this, but to "work through" something there has to be will on both sides. He's pretty clear that he wants to separate. If you take him at his word on this, and there's no reason not to at this point, you won't be able to rationalise him around.

My perspective on these situations is that when someone stops delivering what you need you owe it to yourself to step into the breach and deliver for yourself. If he comes around and realises he's made an awful mistake then you're in a position to negotiate but hanging around waiting and talking and hoping he will come around only weakens your position and further damages your self-esteem. And he won't love or respect you more for waiting.

There are likely a few different things going on OP:

1. Men don't really talk in depth about details like that. My dh has a friend who recently separated from his wife and other than offering condolences my husband hasn't asked why either.

1. If they're saying it's best for the children it sounds a bit like he might have been saying bad things about your relationship.

1. You shouldn't be going through his messages. I know it's a hard time and you obviously want to see what he's saying about it etc but his phone is private.

1. He is the one delivering the breakup, so he doesn't particularly need comfort. You say you were surprised and as the receiver of the news I'd expect your friends to offer sorrys and support. Not so much his.

If he's cheated in the past and already joking with his mates about enjoying the single life I'd say you're better off without him. He sounds a bit of a rat.

I don't think it would be very supportive of a friend saying they are instigating a break up, to say you hope things can be worked out. They've just told you that's not what they want, it would basically be like saying you disapprove of their decision.

I don't think their response was odd. Sorry for what you're going through!

@Thepeopleversuswork Yes I think you’re right. There’s nothing I can do if he doesn’t want to work on things. I don’t know why he has told me he will think about couples counselling once he moves out. Is it some kind of sick power thing? Him and I are seeing things differently. I was thinking it’s a rough patch because he is depressed and doing other out of character things eg raging at his mother. However his perspective he’s unhappy with the marriage. I probably shouldn’t question what he is telling me.

I don’t know why he has told me he will think about couples counselling once he moves out.

He's probably saying it because, until he moves out, he has to live in the same home with you and wants to keep it peaceful as possible for himself.

Sounds like it's not a surprise to these friends.

He's just stringing you on. Or telling you what he thinks you want to hear for an easy life.

You say yourself you are quite highly strung emotionally, and certainly if that's coming out through repeatedly wanting to discuss the whys when he is telling you he is done, checking his phone, not accepting what he tells you he wants badgering him to reconsider for the sake of "in sickness and in health" then that sounds pretty toxic in itself. I don't know if that's the case, but I wonder if it might be?

I had similar when I separated. Lots of people said it was best for the children not to see fighting between their parents. There was no arguing, I just discovered he was shagging his colleague. People just say the standard stuff and don't ask questions.

@Nordicrain Yeah seems like that’s what he’s doing.

We haven’t really discussed the relationship that much to be honest. What I have done until the last few weeks is repeatedly asked him to get help for his anxiety and depression. Maybe more than I should have. And what he wants to do is constantly talk to me about his rage towards his mother.

@strawberryseed Yes I totally get why if there’s a lot of fighting, violence etc it makes sense to say ending a marriage is better for the children. When none of that is true it seems an odd response. But maybe he has presented a more extreme picture of what’s going on then the one that I see.

I'm sorry for what's happening to you. It sounds like it really is a shock. I can't think what possessed you to look through his phone. You had no right to do that. That was completely out of order and now you're just tying yourself in knots trying to disect his conversations and thoughts. You've also given him another reason to not want to be with you.
People don't always separate because they're fighting. Maybe he thought he'd make a real effort and has done all the 'right' things for last few months yet still feels dissatisfied. It sounds like he's made his mind up and the only 'explanation ' you'll get is that he doesn't want to be married to you anymore. I doubt there OW or a big secret waiting to be revealed.
I think you're in shock and you sound more angry than heartbroken so maybe in time you'll realise you truly stopped loving each other a while back.
As for his message about exploring life as a single man, I've no idea why that would be devastating. When people separate they do generally go on to see other people. He's just saying he's not ready for that yet, so he doesn't get bombarded with 'plenty more fish' comments. Sounds like he wants to stay single for now. Its his marriage and family too. Angry as you are at him I'm pretty sure he'll be 'grieving' too in his own way.

@theblue no worries, mine was actually more out of the blue. We’d never had a rough patch as such, we randomly had one massive argument about money (our first big argument ever), which we made up from properly the next day. Then 2 months later he ended things and blamed the argument. I couldn’t believe he was willing to throw everything away for one argument which we’d made up from when our relationship had otherwise been wonderful, but then he said he’d been unhappy for a while etc etc.

thankfully I had some excellent friends who coached me through it and helped me stay strong when all I wanted to do was beg him to stay. I asked him to leave the next day and bagged up all his things for him. He was shocked! I cried myself to sleep night after night but stayed strong and never texted him or stalked on social media. 3 months later he came back with a grand apology letter and I was so relieved I took him back. But immediately I could tell things weren’t going to be as good as they had been previously and over the course of the following year my love for him just died. That was 8 years ago and I’m now very happily married to someone else.

whatever the eventual outcome for you, you will get through this and good times will come again, I promise.

Maybe he genuinely doesn't think he's been moaning or venting to his friends, but they still have picked up a negative view on your relationship?

I have a friend who casually talks about her relationship and it sounds horrible. Lots of him not pulling his weight with the kids, not sticking up for her against his family, prioritising social life over her. If they got divorced I'd be really pleased and supportive of her. But she'd be shocked if you said she had been moaning to her friends about him, she thinks she's just casually chatting about her life and all relationships have these issues.

What I mean is, nobody knew what had gone on with us, they just assumed and said this. It wasn't the case with us and this might be going on for you too.

Yes, and people will draw their own conclusions, too.

My DP has a friend whose girlfriend came across as quite controlling, he would forever be on the phone to her explaining what he was doing, even down to what he was eating (and she'd disapprove if it wasn't healthy enough). He never complained about her but DP and I came to our own conclusion that it didn't seem like a great relationship. We weren't surprised when they broke up.

@Feelinadequate23 Glad to hear you’re doing better. It’s the randomness off it all that’s so perplexing. DH will occasionally give me examples of things from ancient history that he didn’t like and I think really? You’re prepared to throw it all away because I expressed an opinion that you didn’t like. Part of the issue is also that he’s always lacked assertiveness so if he doesn’t agree with something he won’t say it and instead repress his feelings and become resentful. Did you husband ever tell you why he was unhappy?
Packkng bags for him may be the thing to do. Separation has been on the cards now for almost two months and there’s no sign off any movement.
I can see why you would not feel the same way again after being treated like that.

@RecklessBlackberries Yes it’s possible. I know there is talk about relationships. I guess it’s natural. Last time he was with them he told me after that one of his friends had just had a fling because his marriage had been sexless for two years.

@theblue

It’s the randomness off it all that’s so perplexing. DH will occasionally give me examples of things from ancient history that he didn’t like and I think really? You’re prepared to throw it all away because I expressed an opinion that you didn’t like.

I'm sorry to sound pessimistic and cynical here but in my experience when someone can't give a clear answer as to why they've decided to suddenly end a relationship it usually points to there being someone else waiting in the wings. This has happened to me twice before where a partner suddenly dropped this on me out of the blue and then gave inconsistent, confusing and highly unsatisfactory answers as to why they wanted to end it and in each case it later transpired it was because they were moving on to someone else but either lacked the balls to tell me or wanted to make themselves the bad guy in order to get me to end it.

You do say your DH has depression and that certainly could be a reason but having depression in and of itself isn't usually a reason to want to end a marriage.

You know your DH better than I do obviously but is it possible there could be someone else? Because the pattern of behaviour does seem to point towards it IMHO. And if this is the case, you certainly don't want to be "working through" anything with him. You do deserve a straight answer to this question, of course, but you can' count on getting one.

@Thepeopleversuswork He says there isn’t, but its possible of course. I think that’s partly why I picked up his phone. And before people start jumping on me for this, I had access to his phone for ten years and never once looked. I’ve never been controlling or crazy or whatever you call it. When I did look I didn’t see anything obvious. In fact he told one of his friends who lives abroad that it isn’t anything like infidelity. But that doesn’t mean that’s true of course.
How do people seem to always find out? I imagine there probably are many people who feel too ashamed to admit it. Is it just when you see how quickly they have moved on?