Friends encouraging separation?

[theblue]

if your friend suddenly told you they were separating out of the blue, would you not care to ask what’s happened and to say you hope things can be worked out?

DH has suddenly decided he wants to separate (whilst he’s going through depression). To me it’s completely out of the blue. Before he became depressed we were talking about how our relationship was the best it had ever been. I’ve seen messages from a couple of friends responding to the news saying that it’s probably best for the children. No questions about what’s going on even though he claims he’s never told anyone that he’s unhappy. That’s hard to believe. I’m really confused about what he’s been telling them. Divorce may be good for children if there’s a toxic environment at home eg constant fighting, violence. Why would they jump straight to saying it’s good for the children

“He’s leaving me, right out of the blue”

• oh my goodness, that’s awful, how are you doing, could you suggest counselling?

” I’m leaving her”

• good for you, it’s probably for the best, you deserve to be happier than you are.

See? Totally different responses called for in the two circumstances.

They also may have a view of your relationship that doesn’t tally with your own. I was so pleased when a couple split up because he made her so unhappy, but to my astonishment it was him who ended it, not my lovely friend finally kicking him out. Quick swerve from “well done” to “oh god, you poor love, what do you need?”

Even if he sat you down and said "it's because of x" - would that really make you feel better?

What if you felt like x was a silly reason, or not a good enough reason, or a lie?

You don’t have to just go with the flow you know? YOU can also decide what’s going on and how the next few months are going to go. He is clearly heading for divorce in his own mind by telling his friends he’ll let them know when he’s ready for single life or whatever he said. Do you really want to be with someone who doesn’t (for whatever reason) want to be with you? Doesn’t sound like you are going to get a clear answer. So how about you take some control here.

Do you really want to be with someone who doesn’t (for whatever reason) want to be with you? Doesn’t sound like you are going to get a clear answer. So how about you take some control here.

This is the crux of it OP. At the moment he has all the control and you are torturing yourself looking for "reasons" why your marriage is failing, while leaving him to set the script. You probably will never really get these "reasons" and if you did you probably would not like them. Would it make you feel better to learn that there was another woman or that he just wanted to go on the lash five nights a week? Almost certainly not.

In five years time they won't matter, either. What will matter is how you moved on with your life after your marriage ended.

I don't think people are trying to be unkind, here, we've (mostly) all been through this and we know from experience this detailed examination of reasons why your marriage is failing will only prolong the agony. The faster you get control of it, the faster you will recover.

his male friends are saying "it's probably best for the children" with zero expectation that he will be doing anything other than the bare minimum for them, i guess?

Good luck, OP, i think you're going to need it. Set boundaries early on about when and how he introduces your DCs to any future partners.

Some times a small improvement can be a wake up call to how bad things are overall.

It's quite common for someone who is depressed to suddenly decide their marriage is over. Its like they are clutching at straws to try and make themselves feel better. They think these things will solve the problem not realising the depression will go with them. He could even be heading for a breakdown so put him in the hands of his own family and his doctor.
If l was you l would just say fine. I will talk to my solicitor and see how we sort things out. Can you be moved out by the weekend? Let's see how we can sort the dc for being with you every second weekend or whatever. He does not get to decide everything.
Let him see how his life will be. Let him face the consequences head on. Do not run after him or try to see inside his head.
Get support from your own network of family and friends. Pull right back.
Trying to discuss things with him is feeding right into his need to do anything instead of facing his depression and seeking proper help for that.

I've learnt through various situations that friends say what they think we want to hear. What someone says to the person facing a difficulty vs the real thoughts that they express in private are completely different.

Find your true friends who you can discuss the real truth of how you are feeling and in time they will speak honestly and openly give you real advice or a genuine listening ear.

Well no, if a friend told me that they had initiated a seperation I would not say "I hope you can work it out". Because, presumably, that wouldn't be what my friend wanted.I also wouldnt' ask "what happened" because that's none of my business and it is up to my friend whether they wanted to tell them. I would say though that I was there for them and to support them.

Obviously your friends are reacting differently because you don't want to break up, so "hope you can work it out" is an appropriate response because that's what you want.

the only time any of my friends told me they were separating i just asked how i could help. (for one it would have been looking after the DCs for a while while she sorted paperwork, for another it was storing some of his stuff in my garage etc)

I try not to get involved in the machinations of relationships except for when i know for sure one is cheating - i will give them a deadline to tell partner then i will.

But, OP, you can also say: no, if you go i want a divorce so i can start my single woman/mother life. Because I'm with pp - i never want to stay with someone who doesn't want to be with me (but then i wouldn't be with your DH because of the early cheating, so we're obviously very different people)

Oh and of course you are entitled to an explanation. But I think you need to take control of this, rather than wondering about what he's been telling friends. Tell him you aren't waiting around for him to decide when it's convenient for him to split up - either you have couples counselling now to work things out or he can immediate plans to leave. As upsetting as it is for you that your marriage is ending spending months in limbo will make that worse rather than better. You might actually find that you might find splitting up is a better option than staying with someone who is depressing and messes you around this way.

On the children, he says they are the most important thing to him and he wants it to be 50/50.

To all off the people saying I need to not let him decide and why would you want to be with someone who doesn’t want you, I know in my head you’re right. How I get my heart to accept that, I don’t know. I am going between anger and bargaining. How do I stop that.

I think your husband may be having an affair, perhaps just emotional, maybe not. It may not be making him that happy, perhaps she ( or he I suppose) may be demanding commitment which he is not up for- that’s why he is depressed. If he is losing his job, could the affair be linked to work and against company rules? I know that having an affair with a client in my profession ( not medical) was specifically banned and was a dismissal offence ,it was essential not to muddy the waters professionally.

probably DH has presented the classic terrible wife, bad spouse , bad mother picture to his mates , who don’t know you. So they will ‘support’ him by saying
what fun he is going to have as a single guy. The bit about the children will just be ….words, they haven’t a clue and I suspect don’t care either.
I say this because he doesn’t want o , in your words, divorce yet. He wants to keep you on a string until he has made up his mind what HE wants to do (which doesn’t seem to involve engaging with you and attempting to work through your marital distress )

I don’t think I would go along with that,,personally. It would be better for him to go and stay with one of these friends for a bit while you work out what to do for the best.

I asked him to have individual therapy for his depression, he told me would and then nothing happened. I asked him to have couples counselling and he said when he’s on his own he will spend some proper time thinking about it. I thought it was reasonable to give him space to think about it, but given he did nothing about the individual therapy I’m not massively hopeful.

Do I just tell him I’m initiating a divorce or that he chooses if he wants to work on this with couples counselling now? I feel so lost.

I would give him those two options. Because you are still taking control. I would give him, say, 2 days to decide what he wants to do and if it's not actively working it out then you expect to start discussing the arrangements for his leaving. If he doesn't give you an answer, then just start with the arrangements as that is an answer in itself. The reason I would do it that way is to feel I had done what I could to (1) give him the chance to realise the marriage is worth working for and (2) by taking control of a situation that is making you feel confused and powerless.

I think if you felt empowered you would improve your confidence and not feel so desperate to hold onto a man who is telling you (and his mates) that he doesn't want to be with you.

Yes this. If someone told me they’d separated/wanted to separate I’d be encouraging and say good on you for doing what’s right for you. If they’d been dumped unexpectedly I’d say I’m really sorry and support them. I don’t think I’d say “I hope it can be resolved” to either, as it’s dismissive of the separater’s feelings if they want to leave, and could give the dumpee false hope in the other scenario. If someone said they’d had a row with their partner, that’s when I’d say I hope it can be resolved (unless there was abuse or cheating, then I’d be encouraging them to leave)

Most people will just say what they think the other person wants to hear, so if he’s told people he’s instigated this separation they’ll just go along with it because it appears like that’s what he wants. I wouldn’t take it personally, it’s probably nothing more than that.

I think you need to be more steely now. Really.

Take charge.

He's behaving ridiculously. Unable to pinpoint why he wants to divorce. He's showing you how shittily he can behave.

Whilst this all smacks of another woman, you shouldn't jump to conclusions. Anything like that will come out in the wash.

I would contact a solicitor right away. Ask him for his solicitor's details.

You need go show him you're not to be messed with. That it is you who means business.

It is terrifying. It is bewildering and you are very hurt and stunned.

As soon as you take back some control over your life and future, you will start to feel better, I promise.

I'm in the thick of it all now except my stbexh was violent, verbally abusive and adulterous. He throws all sorts of shit at me that still leaves me stunned at how low he can go.

So sorry you are going through this OP and of course you want an explanation. He does owe you that, I don't understand how anyone can think he does. Yes relationships break down all the time but you don't get to (temporarily) screw up someones life without at least explaining what is going on.

I wouldn't start initiating divorce straight away but I would be telling him that as he no longer wants to be in this marriage then he needs to find somewhere else to live. He can't have it all his own way and you need to start accepting, moving on or whatever and you can't do that whilst still living with him. Tell him he has to move out, that you need to arrange contact days/times with the kids and that he is only to contact you if its relating to the children. He is not you friend, so don't be his. Let him go it alone, and I guarantee you it will be nothing how he imagines it to be. If he is depressed then he will take that depression with him until he gets proper help for it.

You WILL be fine. In time you will be.

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen I don’t think he’s being let go because off an affair. He hasn’t performed by bringing in business so they see him as a redundant. He has certain narcissistic tendencies (not a full blown narcissist) so I think the job loss is a huge “narcissistic injury” for him and he’s not coping with it in the way most people would. I do think the anxiety and depression is linked to the job because the timelines all make sense, in terms of when it started (he got a demotion), when it got better (he had a big client), when it got worse (the company started discussions about termination). Whether that would make someone give up their marriage, I don’t know. @junebirthdaygirl said depression can make people want to throw away their marriage. I think that’s entirely possible. He won’t talk about his job loss, but instead he’s taking things out on me and his mother, because it’s easier to blame other people for your happiness rather than accept you are to blame for your own misery. This is what DH brother told me the thinks may be going on (he’s a psychiatrist) based on what I’ve told him.

And it doesn't matter what 'friends' say or think. They don't know what has gone on.

You do what YOU want to do what you think will be best for you and for your children. I’m afraid in your situation I wouldn’t be that worried about what was best for DH.

what is clear is that he doesn’t want to get ‘help’ to mend your marriage, or heal himself. Maybe that’s depression, maybe it’s that he prefers his current situation ( if my hypothesis about the OW is right).

I think you need to see a solicitor and start to work on the practicalities of separation and or divorce. The rights and wrongs, even the root causes are less important now than the financial implications of life as a single parent. You need to take steps about your home, especially if he is going to be unemployed soon.

you may find that concentrating on the practical will distract you from the totally understandable but ultimately pointless musing on why this has happened. You can deal with that after events have resolved. He may yet turn around and say he doesn’t want a divorce after all. Of course, it doesn’t matter what he wants now. It has to be what you want. Get your ducks in a row, I wish you good fortune.

I’ve just seen your update re OW. This doesn’t change my opinion about strategy going forward, because the reasons don’t affect the practicalities which need to be addressed.

So sorry you are going through this OP and of course you want an explanation. He does owe you that, I don't understand how anyone can think he does. Yes relationships break down all the time but you don't get to (temporarily) screw up someones life without at least explaining what is going on.

But even if he does give an explanation, it could be total bollocks. There's no guarantee that OP will ever get the truth out of him. And even if she does, it won't change the outcome.

In my experience, most people tend to say whatever they think will make the break-up quick and easy. They don't want to get drawn into a debate or an argument - they just want it over and done with. I know that's always been the case when I've ended a relationship anyway.

Sometimes relationships just come to an end - it's not necessarily caused by anything in particular and so there isn't really a tangible reason to give. Nobody wants to say to someone "I just can't be arsed anymore" or "I just don't love you" - and I doubt anyone would feel better to hear it.

His brother may be helpful in getting him to see a doctor and get help for anxiety and depression.

But you need to focus on caring for yourself.