Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think blaming Brexit for all our current issues is outdated

215 replies

Bethatlass · 12/04/2023 09:21

When Brexit was being voted on in 2016 Obama was president in the US, George Osborne was chancellor, David Cameron was prime minister, most people had never even heard of Wuhan in China. Since then we’ve had a trump presidency, a way in Ukraine, a global pandemic, massive political change etc. To put it into context my own DD was still in primary school when it happened and is now ready to go off to university in a matter of months. I’m not denying that Brexit has caused and contributed to some of the current issues. However, none of us could have possibly known about Ukraine or the pandemic when we were voting on it and none of us could have possibly known the change in politics we would have of those delivering it. FWIW I didn’t vote leave, although I was torn at the time, while I still think I was right to vote remain I don’t blame those who felt differently almost a decade ago. Therefore, Aibu to think that blaming those who voted for Brexit/Brexit itself for all our current issues is outdated.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Luckydip1 · 13/04/2023 16:56

@Blossomtoes he'd be an idiot to say what he believed in?

Lisbeth50 · 13/04/2023 16:56

because David Cameron hurriedly lauched Brexit as an "Advisory" referendum, certain safeguards were not put in place.

Referendums are supposed to always be advisory. I don't know why DC was so insistent that the government would act on it.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 13/04/2023 17:00

Luckydip1 · 13/04/2023 16:39

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves it is quite ridiculous for you to blame the Tories for Brexit. It was the voters who wanted a hard Brexit and that is what they got.

Saying I'm ridiculous doesn't actually counter any of the arguments that I have put forward. It is far more ridiculous that you keep trying to argue - without any real substance - that the Tories bear no responsibility for what happened at all. As if they were merely passive bystanders to the whole sorry saga.

And again, regarding the hard Brexit, you can't possibly claim to know what "the voters" wanted when they voted to leave, because nobody actually asked them.

And Theresa May did not try to build consensus across the house. In fact, she was repeatedly criticised at the time for failing to engage in proper cross party dialogue and she refused to consider proposals from the Labour Party which involved staying in the customs union.

I don't know what your interest in the Tory party is, but you seem bizarrely determined to absolve them of all responsibility for Brexit without actually having any credible arguments to back up your point of view. Your loyalty to the party is admirable, but surely there comes a point when the facts get in the way of what you might want to believe?

Of course, people who voted for Brexit must take their share of the blame. They were lied to repeatedly by the likes of Boris Johnson and his mates, but they were also warned of the dangers of Brexit and they chose to ignore those warnings.

The Leave campaign, which included politicians from across the political spectrum, must also take a share of the blame. They lied shamelessly to voters and deliberately whipped up racist sentiment in support of their cause.

And of course, Labour and the other Remain parties must take their fair share of the blame too. They didn't have any control over the nature of the referendum itself, but they failed to make a compelling case for the benefits of staying in the EU and they failed to argue successfully for a softer Brexit after the vote had happened. And they are continuing to fail the electorate right now by rolling over and accepting the verdict of the referendum as if there is nothing that anyone can do about it now, despite the fact that they know how much damage it is doing.

So I don't absolve any of the key players in this whole mess from their share of responsibility, but ultimately, it was the Tories who made it happen, the Tories who dictated how it would happen and the Tories who chose to implement it in the way that they did. I will always blame them for that, and so will millions of others around the country. If it hadn't been for infighting within the Tory party in the first place, we would never have ended up here!

Blossomtoes · 13/04/2023 17:01

Luckydip1 · 13/04/2023 16:56

@Blossomtoes he'd be an idiot to say what he believed in?

He’d be an idiot to make promises he can’t keep which is essentially what you’re asking for.

Youcunnyfunt · 13/04/2023 17:01

FYI we did know a pandemic was likely to occur fairly soon and many people were also aware that Russia was becoming more and more volatile and likely to begin warring. Not all of us are ignorant!

Part of making political decisions like Brexit is thinking about the potential outcomes (including worst case scenarios like wars and pandemics) and what impact it will have. Never mind the impact on day to day life, there are many, many educated people who have been explaining what might happen and all the things we need to consider if we left the EU, before Brexit was even a thing. There have been discussions about all of this for a LONG time. These things don't happen overnight. Unless you live under a rock.

Crikeyalmighty · 13/04/2023 17:02

@Felixss presumably you have a work and social circle then that hasn't been heavily impacted- some of us have- in our industry it comes up every day due to many complications

Luckydip1 · 13/04/2023 17:03

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves you are clearly a diehard lefty and any points I make are falling on deaf ears, no point continuing this with you.

Crikeyalmighty · 13/04/2023 17:08

@Luckydip1 neither- I blame the system. When we were in Denmark I could have voted for 1 of about 10 different politicians/parties all with slightly varying views , knowing that if enough people voted that way too there would be some representation- rather than basing it on individual seats - tends to stop very far left or right actually ruling the roost, although they do get some representation. It involves far more consensus .

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 13/04/2023 17:10

Luckydip1 · 13/04/2023 17:03

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves you are clearly a diehard lefty and any points I make are falling on deaf ears, no point continuing this with you.

Whether I'm a diehard lefty or not is actually irrelevant. I'm perfectly happy to engage with rational, well reasoned debate, but none of the "points" that you're making have any validity. They're either completely made up (such as claims about what the majority of voters were voting for when you can't possibly know this, or claims that the electoral commission dictated the content of the referendum question, or that May worked hard to achieve cross party consensus) or they are irrelevant (such as the statement that David Cameron was a remainer, as if that means that he couldn't possibly be responsible for any of what happened despite being the chief instigator of the whole thing).

I can't debate with nonsense, I'm afraid, and your points are not really points at all.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 13/04/2023 17:11

But I do agree, there is no point in continuing the conversation.

Crikeyalmighty · 13/04/2023 17:11

@Luckydip1 it also means that politicians and voters can vote truer to beliefs rather than keeping the other lot out ! The centre and centre left vote has been split for many years and yet have over 50% of the vote. The Tory's bought off Farage last time!

Florenz · 13/04/2023 17:31

At the end of the day, businesses and government departments have known Brexit was happening for nearly 7 years, and even before that, they knew it was on the cards and should have had contingency plans. The truth is that so many people were used to an easy life and are throwing their toys out of the pram now that they can't rely on immigrants to do their bidding for low wages.

Crikeyalmighty · 13/04/2023 18:11

@Florenz that's a bit of a generalisation- !! no immigrants whatsoever involved in our business but an awful lot more of the red tape they said they wanted to do away with- which might be fine if you run a corner shop- not if you export and it's a core part of your business

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/04/2023 19:22

MissyB1 · 13/04/2023 16:50

I think we all know it was a choice that should never have been given.

As far as the Tories were concerned the choice they gave the country was: Heads I win. Tails you lose.

PM Johnson actually admitted to tossing a coin over it.

MissyB1 · 13/04/2023 20:26

Luckydip1 · 13/04/2023 16:52

@MissyB1 hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it

In this case no hindsight was ever going to be needed.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread