To think blaming Brexit for all our current issues is outdated

[Bethatlass]

When Brexit was being voted on in 2016 Obama was president in the US, George Osborne was chancellor, David Cameron was prime minister, most people had never even heard of Wuhan in China. Since then we’ve had a trump presidency, a way in Ukraine, a global pandemic, massive political change etc. To put it into context my own DD was still in primary school when it happened and is now ready to go off to university in a matter of months. I’m not denying that Brexit has caused and contributed to some of the current issues. However, none of us could have possibly known about Ukraine or the pandemic when we were voting on it and none of us could have possibly known the change in politics we would have of those delivering it. FWIW I didn’t vote leave, although I was torn at the time, while I still think I was right to vote remain I don’t blame those who felt differently almost a decade ago. Therefore, Aibu to think that blaming those who voted for Brexit/Brexit itself for all our current issues is outdated.

Ahhhhhhh in Northern Ireland last week again we can see the direct effects of brexit. This is definitely not an outdated concept. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-65081565

Trying to send products to Europe is now a massive drag. Who benefitted from making trade harder - it was so so stupid.

I am not the typical person who you would have thought would vote for brexit but I did after much consideration. I voted to remain in the first referendum, but to stay in a common market which made, and still does so much sense

In that case, you must surely be in favour of being in the single market which Brexit took us out of. It didn't have to do that at all. There was no reason for us to leave the single market and no opportunity for anyone - except MPs- to vote for this.

Outdated?! So you don't imagine that changing the status of our borders and relationship with biggest trading partners would have effects lasting more than a few years...or be like, permenant?! I don't wish to be rude, but your analysis shows the type of misunderstanding common among most brexit voters.
Why do you suppose that all the main proponents of it have gone quiet? (Apart from Rees-Mogg, who just talks nonsense, which I doubt even he believes. )

The article you link to is right in that the IMF is predicting Britain's performance to be poor with comparable countries though you neglect to mention that this is a prediction - it has not happened yet. The IMF has already had to give the UK ecomony a significant upgrade in its forecasts (as released today) and has a history of repeatedly under-predicting the UK's economy so we should see how it pans out before calling the OP ridiculous.

Incidentally in the same relaease this morning the IMF has also warned Hunt off giving into to public sector pay rises ebcause it will make inflation worse.

Many people who are pro-Brexit and hang on every word the IMF utters on that subject seem to be very keen for public sector workers to have large pay rises. I am not sure how they square this worship with the IMF's rather Tory views on pay.

Do I think we'll do badly compared to many other similar countries this year? Yes, probably because of the large number of strikes and the loss of productivity. Do I think the IMF will have to revise their forecasts somewhat in our favour adn that the UK economy will actually perform better than predicted? Yes, as usual.

Do I think you can possibly know whether Brexit is a positive or negative thing economically for the UK yet? No - and probably not for another few decades.

You're right OP people need to let it go, work with the sytem we've got, and in the long term it will be clearer.

Because no-one ever lived or worked abroad before 1992. Seriously? Don't exagerate.

I have relatives who met studying in Europe in the early 1960s. Both British with only British passports . I had friends from Germany and Denmark who had come here to work to improve their English in the late 80s and early 90s before free movement.

I was at university with French women and a German man who had come here to study - not studying languages - again before free movement.

A friend of my mother's went off on a melt-down rant, in the days after the Brexit vote, about her children's futures being ruined because of Brexit before her son went off to the Netherlands to do a degree just last year.

You really don't know what you're talking about.

Ffs, I can't believe people are STILL this thick. Brexit has MASSIVELY affected our ability to live and work in the EU.

@ChristinaXYZ, Brexit made working/studying abroad more difficult and more expensive. It is still possible, but harder for working and middle class Britons.

The IMF is not an EU thing. It doesn't matter what individuals here think of them but they are a big deal internationally. Britain has been weakened and destabilised due to the Tory government's decisions. Foreign and financial markets no longer trust the UK. They do pay close attention to what the IMF says.

Before 1992 all the other European countries had passports

So we weren't competing against people who all needed passports and visas.

Now we are the only ones who do.

And vice versa.

This is why if you can get an Irish passport you have a massive advantage over a Brit.

Why take a Brit over someone who is an EU citizen?

”The automatic right to live and work in the EU ceased after the transition period. British citizens looking to move to an EU country – whether that is to work or to retire – need to apply in accordance with that country's immigration rules. Those wishing to work may need a work visa and an employer to sponsor them.”

I didn’t say it was impossible. I said the automatic right had been taken away.
Yes you may apply to immigrate to a particular county but that takes time (approx 5 years. There’s criteria to follow and you could be refused. Im not sure what you don’t understand about the right being taken away from all of us.

Fwiw, DH could easily get a visa to Spain due to his occupation and recent changes to their visa requirements. He'd also have a good chance in other places.

But the reality is even for us, is it would be a lot harder than it was and compared to other Europeans.

Do I think we'll do badly compared to many other similar countries this year? Yes, probably because of the large number of strikes and the loss of productivity. Do I think the IMF will have to revise their forecasts somewhat in our favour adn that the UK economy will actually perform better than predicted? Yes, as usual.

Yes there are definitely 100% not strikes happening in other countries that might have a similar effect on their productivity. No siree. Absolutely not. Totally zero strikes happening in France, or Italy, or Spain, or Germany.

The lengths to which some people will go to try to come up with reasons that aren't linked to Brexit for our comparatively poor economic performance relative to our economic peers are quite staggering.

100% agree. Blaming Brexit for everything that goes wrong / is going wrong is pathetic. But you'll never get people on here to agree with you. The majority of people here are remainers... I won't get into an argument with anyone about it on here. It's a waste of time.

It's not outdated. Brexit voters who didn't even know what they were voting for really, + allowed themselves to be fooled by misinformation and rule Britannia style xenophobia, are beyond silly. Of course it's going to be spoken about and there'll be blame, I'm surprised you wouldn't realise that. Your bluffing makes no difference.

I'm frankly boggled by Brexit-apologists complaining that us criticising the current and ongoing unresolved situation is "outdated" when their entire premise was based on undoing a 40+ year well-embedded arrangement (plus something something WWII) in the apparent expectation of an oncoming eternity of unicorns prancing unceasingly across sunlit uplands.

So tell me the positives of Brexit t please?

Honestly, the way some Brexit supporters talk, it's as if there was a five minute window that we could pin on Brexit.

After the vote, we needed to wait to see the positive impacts. Now, some say, it was too far in the past to have an impact.

Can we be told the date when this positive window was? At least pin it down to a month?

You don't think leaving a powerful trading block/group of countries and going it a alone as a relatively small country/economy has effected the UK's ability to weather the recent global storms?

You think 7 years was a long time ago in global terms? And you think Brexit happened when the vote happened?

Are you serious? I honestly can't tell anymore.

You don't exactly need to be Adam Smith to figure out that putting trade barriers up with your biggest and nearest trading partners in favour of Mickey Mouse trade deals with countries 10,000 miles away, is not a good idea.

'Outdated' is a word one might use to describe Roy Chubby Brown or bootcut jeans. Brexit on the other hand is an ever-expanding clusterfuck.

I voted leave.

Now I would change that to neither - as in not voting at all.

Sorry I posted on the wrong Brexit thread 😬

You understand the world is a different place now to what it was in 1990? As migration has increased it has generally become much more difficult and/or expensive to move to an EU country than it was 30 years ago.

I came to the UK in the 2000s. Because of the EU I could do a 4 year degree in Scotland paying £0 tuition. That same degree would now cost me £80000 in tuition fees alone.

I now work at a university in the EU and teach on a master's programme here. Our MSc is free for EU students. Brits now have to pay £22000.

When we're hiring new staff we have to consider EU candidates first. Only if we cannot find a suitable person within the EU are we allowed to hire those from outside it. This hasn't really affected our hiring of, say, professors. They are generally uniquely skilled enough that allows us to justify hiring a non-EU professor. Lower-level and administrative jobs? Not a chance. The administration & cost of hiring a non-EU admin or financial assistant are just not worth it.

Have an EU-spouse and want to move to their home country? The rules will vary by country, but where I live the wait for a spousal visa is currently 1-2 years.

How weak

YABU- this is a long tail issue which will have ramifications for decades. Huge businesses choosing not to invest or relocate here because we are outside of the single market takes billions out of our economy over the long term. Delays at ports because goods now need checking slow productivity and lose companies money. Firms not being able to hire enough workers because we’ve left the single market slows our economy.

We are immeasurably poorer than we were in 2016 and 2010, and that’s largely because of Brexit and Tory underinvestment.