Those of you who voted for Brexit when is it going to get better and how?

[N0addedsalt]

I didn’t and didn’t see any benefits. Tried to refocus anger about the lies during the campaign to resignation and acceptance. Was ready to try and embrace/ focus on positives and move forward but still really can’t see any. Now just getting increasingly worried and also fearful.

Hit me with all the benefits and when we’re going to see them impacting our lives.

If we consider what the EU would require: consistent, stable and long term polling over 65% for rejoin or possibly more.

The other problem is leaving the EU means the loss of all the value-added stuff we negotiated - the rebate, the opt outs and we will most likely lose our currency.

The cost will be so high that only serious economic decline would drive us to it - but that will come. While Brexiters believe we can replace EU trade with global trade, it’s not actually possible. Even China with its unrivalled global trade - has trade deals with its nearest neighbours.

Don't doubt it but even a newly negotiated CU, on the lines of the Turkey/EU one is years away.

Labour have said a firm NO, they are a party of Brexitiers now, so that leaves the Tories....

Labour have said a firm NO, they are a party of Brexitiers now

They were Remainers until they weren’t. They turned on a sixpence. That flips both ways.

In the words of Jim Thacker “I am their leader I must follow them”.

Talk about gaslighting the OP: 'You need help' 'Bore Off' etc.

Why shouldn't OP be pissed off with the shit show that some of you have contributed to, mainly through zenophobia etc.

And the 140 million is doing wonders for our NHS.

Food no longer has a sell by date (in Asda).

Gas, electric is through the roof. People cannot afford to eat.

The mental health services are over capacity.

Fruit/veg is wasted because there is no one to pick it: "They're taking OUR jobs..oh, hang on, perhaps I don't want to pick fruit".

What used to unite us, now divides us.

But, nevermind: 'We have our country back' (in-between begging the same 'foreigners' we told to eff off to please do a 180 cos we're in the shit and we need help).

What a fucking mess!

Hmm, why do I get Animal Farm vibes from this line of thought?

All animals are equal....except some animals are more equal than others it certainly does seem from these posts.

There's already a name for this type of governance I do believe. You know the type of governance for people who just don't know what's best for them and have to be told what to think.

I probably wouldn’t go as far as this, but it might have been an idea at the referendum to include at least two questions on the ballot that had to be answered correctly: What is the EU? and ‘Does the UK elect MEPs?’

I probably wouldn’t go as far as this, but it might have been an idea at the referendum to include at least two questions on the ballot that had to be answered correctly: What is the EU? and ‘Does the UK elect MEPs?’

Blackpear what would be the correct answer to ‘what is the EU’?

If they get the answer 'wrong' perhaps they then could be immediately transferred to the Gulags?

Always really helps a discussion when people invent random hyperbole that nobody has said. Congratulations.

To me it seems Labour have taken a pragmatic stance i.e. we have Brexit and we now have to make it work by building our relationship with the EU and trying to negate all the blindingly obvious downsides. Does that not meet the wants of the 'it was a democratic vote so suck it up' stance and the 'this isn't working we need to do something' view.

In fact, one senior EU official (can't remember the name now) did suggest, in an op-ed article in the Times pre 2016 referendum, that the right to vote should be restricted to people with degrees. It shocked me rigid as totally contrary to the principle of one person, one vote!

The Tories would have a field day if Labour, having said "We will make Brexit work" then turned around and said "err actually no we can't"

As i said, i think its more possible the Tories will flipflop on this issue, certainly on a CU.

I thought TMs deal was a reasonable balance. Recognising we voted to leave while accommodating the fact that it was not an overwhelming vote and therefore going for the softest Brexit possible.

Unfortunately, she had to go to the polls in order to get a bigger majority so she could head off the Tory right, and failed dismally in the process.

Labour remainers could have voted with her for the benefit of the country, but the oppositions job is to oppose so they can be hardly blamed for voting against. I also think the remainers thought they could get the vote overturned at that point (pretty unlikely but there you go) so gambled all or nothing on that.

The result was of course that May was thrown out and we got Johnson who then got elected with a strong mandate to deliver a Brexit of his choosing. So the Tory right got what they wanted in the end, either by design or luck, and the remainers lost it all because they were unwilling to accept a reasonable compromise. And there lies a lesson for us all, served up by representative democracy (which of course is so much better than letting us idiot voters make a choice in a referendum).

Mays deal wasn't particularly soft at all, border in Irish sea, not in CU or SM.

Bojo took that deal and re badged it as his.

Both parties will have to figure out how to frame the Brexit has fucked the country reality. Either side can use it against the other, but neither can avoid facing it eventually.

I don’t get why May’s deal is seen as better. Apart from the fact it failed to get through three times there wasn’t much difference

Why do pp prefer it?

May’s was hard Brexit. She committed herself to that position at the Tory “citizens of nowhere” conference, not entirely intentionally according to Hammond.

It was negotiated with an eye to allowing the headbangers who would inevitably supersede her to harden it further. They were always breathing down her neck.

Boris merely took over her deal and stiffened it.

The key difference was that May was a Unionist and would never have ditched NI whereas Boris didn’t give a fuck.

NI was always going to sink a hard brexit, it is simply not possible to have NI as fully integrated into the UK, yet at the same time have no border between NI and the EU.
Its something the DUP and many others chose to ignore.

This was clearly known and talked about about pre 2016 and something a good PM would have considered and therefore not held a referendum, esp with polling so tight, within the margin of error +/- 3%.

Mays deal would have also scuppered NI too, there simply is no resolution at the moment, given the 2 main parties stances.

A ‘soft Brexit’ to me includes FOM via SM

May didn’t include this. I don’t think it ever featured

@WhereHasTheSunshineGone you're suggesting a system where only the chosen people have the right to vote so I figured why not take this train of thought to it's natural conclusion?

And who chooses who's worthy? Who are these golden folk at the top who know what the EU is - which is a broad subject because as I mentioned previously circumstances affect opinions.

Are the 'stupid' people actually free to have an opinion based on how membership is affecting their life? Or are they free to have the correct opinion, ergo YOUR opinion, deemed to be the only correct one?

This was clearly known and talked about about pre 2016 and something a good PM would have considered and therefore not held a referendum, esp with polling so tight, within the margin of error +/- 3%.

Agreed, it’s a testament to the indifference to NI among the Tories. They generally regard it as an drain on finances.

Mays deal would have also scuppered NI too, there simply is no resolution at the moment, given the 2 main parties stances.

It was a better deal for the DUP, and they supported it until Nigel Dodds had a meeting with Raab and Johnson, after which he commented “they are not unionists”, and could see where May’s deal would be taken after her departure. So he dropped his support and was the final end of May’s deal.

Of course Johnson’s deal was worse from a DUP perspective. But it’s difficult to feel sympathy with a party that supported Brexit.

He wasn't even a senior EU official.

The Times and The Telegraph seemed very very willing to publish anything any hard-right crank anywhere within the EU wanted to write and portray these as being significant.

(It's amazing the way cranks attract fellow cranks.)

Johnson was talking soft Brexit directly after the vote.

According to Hammond May found herself inextricably committed to hard Brexit after her hardcore “citizens of nowhere’ Tory party conference speech - not completely intentionally in his view - and then couldn’t row back from it.

One of May’s advisors, who later resigned, can’t remember his name, said that May was advised soft Brexit was totally on the table after the vote. It was her and her parties choice to go hard.

Brexitiers lied through their teeth before and after the vote, Johnson lied to Parliament and said of course we'd be in Erasmus, Horizon & no change to travel work etc to the EU (i think this was in 2019)

Agree a Soft Brexit has to include at least some aspect of FOM and the other 3 freedoms too.

I must admit i'm surprised at Labours position, they rarely come out with policy announcements but have on this, well, at least verbally.

Well the answer would be something like ‘A political union and trading block of 28 countries with reciprocal rights and freedoms’.