Those of you who voted for Brexit when is it going to get better and how?

[N0addedsalt]

I didn’t and didn’t see any benefits. Tried to refocus anger about the lies during the campaign to resignation and acceptance. Was ready to try and embrace/ focus on positives and move forward but still really can’t see any. Now just getting increasingly worried and also fearful.

Hit me with all the benefits and when we’re going to see them impacting our lives.

I believe there has been a massive change in attitudes towards environmental issues in the UK over the past 30 years, moving at the start from the fringe parties like the Greens to more mainstream parties like the Tories and Labour. I believe the Green party have had a significant part to play in starting the process for change and I haven't seen any evidence to convince me otherwise.

No, not at the next election. It will take time for the reality to sink in for the majority of voters. Give it a few years, and I'm pretty sure that people will start to realise what they've done.

It’s interesting to consider where we’d be if WM was not blocking the action. On another thread it’s been shown to be a deal breaker for the Greens. It’s a good example of where a small group can make big changes with a do this or we walk.

On Brexit if so many are regretting it, or lying as claimed it should be quite easy to use it for votes at the next GE.

I think we’re still facing similar issues around immigration, and it’s the reason Labour won’t go there, plus have actively tried to use the Brexit line for votes.

The shift in environmental concerns and attitudes over the last 30 years is a global phenomenon, it cannot be said to have been driven by the U.K. Green Party.

Only if they're so stupid that they don't realise that those things also happened to every other conparable country, yet they are not in the dire state that we are...

Oh.

If there was something I felt the urge to campaign about I would.

I don't see any obligation to answer peoples questions, or elaborate on my personal situation, which would just lead to the obvious response, well you're all right but what about me ? Seen it all on here x1000 before.

It's interesting to post stuff sometimes and see responses, to help you understand your own arguments or ideas or change your opinions if you see something convincing given in response. Sadly that's mostly not the case here, but every now and then something interesting comes up.

Well, we are all entitled to our opinions but judging on the amount of grey water sewage we happily pump into streams rivers and the sea, the amount of natural diversity the UK has lost over the last 30 years, the amount of litter we throw away & our love affair with the car .. i'm not sure we have changed too much.

Brexit of course makes enforcement of Green targets far harder, there is no ECJ, instead yet another toothless quango, the Office of Environmental Protection, just another set up where the Govt marks its own homework

I've noticed that as well @Mirabai. You also get it with people lauding or defending the Tories then try to imply they're not Tory voters.🙈

Are yes you too

Do you lie about how you voted? I can’t say I ever have. Why would anyone.

There does seem to be a little knot of remainers / left who lash out like this though. Why is that? I think it might be frustration at the arguments not being very convincing.

There are a few that seem similar - frustrated so focus on the wrong thing.

There have been so many of these threads. Similar to another issue that women bring up here often.

I can see movement with the latter but nothing on this. Less than that Labour is actively garnering Brexit voter support

I wonder why there’s a difference. I can guess immigration still leads with a fair part of the electorate. It’s likely that when inflation falls then the Brexit issue may well fall down the agenda further for voters (and it’s not being led on at all now). I can’t see it growing as a topic for change but we’ll see.

@GasPanic So - you’re keen to discuss the legitimacy and democratic status of the Brexit referendum not the actual benefits. Ok.

The people I know who voted Leave did so to weaken the UK and destabilise the Union.

They're delighted at what has happened.😒

Which were the three elections in which a Remainer like me could have voted to stop Brexit @GasPanic?

Every person over the age of majority gets to vote. And they get to vote for whoever/whatever they like, on whatever basis they feel appropriate.

Unless you have a different suggestion ?

Just after the referendum a poster started a thread on here suggesting that citizens should take a test before they be allowed to vote. Quite a few people agreed with them.
When asked what form the test would take, who would mark it etc they didn’t have an answer.

There is no point blaming Leave voters or even being pleased they have changed their minds.
We wont rejoin inside a generation & the longer its left, the less likely we will meet tougher entry qualifications and terms.

Probably why Labour don't advocate the SM etc, they know it can't happen, all we can do is get a better trading relationship, pay to join Horizon, Erasmus, job qualification equivalents, that sort of thing.

@MarshaBradyo

It takes courage to admit you’re wrong, as a few posters on here have done, and I respect them for it. Others many have the courage or may not want to be thought stupid.

The tactic of denying racism/homophobia/sexism to express such views with less censure is common enough. As is self-distancing from discredited campaigns and causes.

That's not true. Rejoining the EU at present would be difficult but rejoining the single market and customs union would be fairly straightforward and the EU has stated it would be open to that. That would fix most of the catastrophic damage done by the hard Brexit chosen by the Conservatives with no mandate to do so. The EU would be willing, the majority of the UK population support it, and it would immensely improve our economy, by tens of billions per year that we are losing as a result of this mess. There is no excuse for politicians refusing to do this while expressing faux concern for people struggling with the cost of living when this would make such a huge difference to that and is completely within their power to fix.

I don't think EU/SM membership will be on the political agenda for another few years yet. At the moment, I think it's hard for people to know what's causing their problems - e.g. is it a hangover from covid, is it Ukraine, is it Brexit etc. Or just 13 years of Tory government.

When we really start to recognise that our economy is continuing to fall behind others which have also been affected by covid, the Ukraine war etc, over a sustained period and perhaps after several changes of government, then I think there will be a real appetite for reversing Brexit or at least rejoining the single market. But I don't think it will happen quickly and I don't think politicians from any of the main parties will be brave enough to push for it until it becomes blindingly obvious. Even if the electorate might be on board sooner, I'm not sure if the right wing media would be. And in a few years' time, a lot of the architects of Brexit will be out of the picture anyway, so there won't be the loss of face that there would be if they pursued it now.

I do think that the vast majority of politicians on both sides of the Brexit debate and from all parties can see the downward trajectory that we're on, but I don't think any of them have the courage to talk about it. They would rather allow the download spiral to continue than to put their own necks on the line. It's a very curious phenomenon that I don't fully understand.

I would agree with this. There should be a basic test in critical thinking, application of logic, relevant general knowledge (basic functioning of the political system, law, economics, tax - with a course provided optionally if people need help) prior to obtaining the vote.

With rights should come responsibilities. Voting on topics that you have no informed or valid opinion on is harmful to others.

The same should apply before people are accepted onto a jury: an assessment of whether people are capable of weighing up evidence critically and rationally. That they can understand the legal tests about the burden of proof required to reach a verdict, etc.

When we really start to recognise that our economy is continuing to fall behind others which have also been affected by covid

But how long will that take for the economically illiterate with their cognitive dissonance, if they've not even realised it by now? Pre-Brexit vote the UK's economy was 90% of the size of Germany's economy. It's now less than 70%. Last time I checked, the pandemic hit Germany too. So what's their explanation for this enormous decline in just a few years?

If they're too stupid to realise now then they probably never will.

Wherehas could you give some examples of the questions you think should be asked?
What would happen to people who spoke poor English?
How would cheating be prevented?
Who would mark the tests?
Would anyone who boycotted the test have their right to vote revoked?

I don’t see rejoin on the horizon for a generation. But this country won’t survive economically without the SM/CU - that is what is required if we want a “better trading relationship”. What you’re talking about is watered down cakeism - Switzerland want Erasmus and Horizon too but they’re excluded.

Rejoining the EU at present would be difficult but rejoining the single market and customs union would be fairly straightforward and the EU has stated it would be open to that.

Yes this is the place I’m coming from too. The EU has stated this.

The best thing they can do to prove they're not stupid would be to contact their MPs en masse and demand it gets sorted out. State that when they voted for Brexit that they did not believe it would mean permanently having non-functional public services due to the lower tax revenue, despite the highest tax burden in 70 years! While living on an island surrounded by raw sewage because environmental protections can now be removed, and having workers' rights etc removed. And demand change. If they do that then I'll respect them. Until then, I hold them entirely accountable for the mess they've created and believe them to be cowardly ostriches burying their heads in the sand while everybody else suffers for their mistakes. I can't respect someone who would do that.

Yes this is the place I’m coming from too. The EU has stated this.

It's so depressing that we have no politicians of any calibre in any party. That the UK public would overwhelmingly support this, the EU are happy to agree it, and it would raise living standards for UK citizens immensely, yet none of our politicians propose to do it. That shows us everything we need to know about the politicians in both parties: they do not give a damn about the living standards of the citizens of the UK and are entirely out for themselves.