Page 15 | To be getting more not less depressed about Brexit as time goes on

teneastereggs · 2023-04-11T21:32:25+00:00

It all seems so pointless doesn't it, I feel sorry that some- probably many- people were duped into voting for it, I feel annoyed that the 48 percent who voted remain have been completely ignored, annoyed about all the divisions it has caused our country and all the rows, and overall just really fed up with the state we are in now. I thought it would be getting better by now but actually feel worse about it now than I did at the time.

Original poster

teneastereggs · 13/04/2023 23:41

I think also you might be putting too much weight on Brexit as a cause of problems. There are a lot of other things at wok globally that are making life difficult for many people in many different countries.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/24/economy/brexit-uk-economy/index.html

Brexit has cracked Britain's economic foundations | CNN Business

Far from delivering on former Prime Minister Boris Johnson's promise of a "propserous, dynamic and contented" Britain, Brexit has hobbled the UK economy.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/24/economy/brexit-uk-economy/index.html

OP posts:

Original poster

teneastereggs · 13/04/2023 23:42

That's how lots of people felt in the years leading up to Brexit, yet no one listened. Now the shoe is on the other foot it's a different story.

The shoe's not on the other foot. Everyone is worse off, the whole country is worse off. Who'd vote for that.

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Barbecuebeans · 13/04/2023 23:43

teneastereggs · 13/04/2023 23:42

That's how lots of people felt in the years leading up to Brexit, yet no one listened. Now the shoe is on the other foot it's a different story.

The shoe's not on the other foot. Everyone is worse off, the whole country is worse off. Who'd vote for that.

Only people who were lied to and believed the lies.

CandleInTheStorm · 13/04/2023 23:43

Barbecuebeans · 13/04/2023 23:40

What real life experiences? The things people said to me were about red tape(lies), wanting things to be different (wtf), wanting less immigration (didn't work).

I don't believe you that people weren't affected by the media. People may have been angry but they were angry about the wrong thing, as I've explained

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As I said, people all around the country used to speak out on question time during the decade before Brexit. It doesn't matter if you believe me or not, it used to happen and people were angry. How Brexit was a surprise to anyone is astonishing.

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/04/2023 23:43

This is going to sound stupid and trivial compared to the monumental balls up that Brexit is, but here goes:

The day after the Leave vote I passed the street art, the entertainment venues, the amazing architecture and realised that my city, that had come so far, would never be European City of Culture. And I had a wee cry on the bus.

Original poster

teneastereggs · 13/04/2023 23:44

Only people who were lied to and believed the lies.

Yes and in some cases still don't want to face the reality of what's happening. Even as they look at empty shelves in their supermarket.

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CandleInTheStorm · 13/04/2023 23:44

teneastereggs · 13/04/2023 23:42

That's how lots of people felt in the years leading up to Brexit, yet no one listened. Now the shoe is on the other foot it's a different story.

The shoe's not on the other foot. Everyone is worse off, the whole country is worse off. Who'd vote for that.

Those who weren't being listened to in the first place unfortunately.

Barbecuebeans · 13/04/2023 23:46

CandleInTheStorm · 13/04/2023 23:43

As I said, people all around the country used to speak out on question time during the decade before Brexit. It doesn't matter if you believe me or not, it used to happen and people were angry. How Brexit was a surprise to anyone is astonishing.

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I didn't say I didn't believe that people were angry. I said they were lied to about what was causing their anger. I was astonished people believed the lies. But then we had Covid and the anti vaxxers and it all became clear.

You still haven't said what people were angry about.

Original poster

teneastereggs · 13/04/2023 23:46

Those who weren't being listened to in the first place unfortunately.

They're still not being listened to, they've just fucked themselves over and are poorer into the bargain and face potentially losing a lot of employment and other rights and risking peace in N.I

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Barbecuebeans · 13/04/2023 23:49

teneastereggs · 13/04/2023 23:46

Those who weren't being listened to in the first place unfortunately.

They're still not being listened to, they've just fucked themselves over and are poorer into the bargain and face potentially losing a lot of employment and other rights and risking peace in N.I

Yep. People who believed Boris Johnson was a man of the people because he rode a bike and had mussed up hair 🤮. And trusted anything that came from the mouth of a proven liar and self interested bigot.

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/04/2023 23:51

CosyFanTucci · 11/04/2023 23:38

There are just two groups of winners: tradies like builders and truckers who no longer compete with Europeans and have had huge pay rises as a result (hence inflation for everyone and no decent builders available and rotting veg). And millionaire Tory MPs who can continue off-shoring money without scrutiny. Everyone else - farmers, fishers, students, academics, importers, exporters, travellers, workers, anyone with a modicum of ambition - was shafted by a load of gullible xenophobes.

Another group is the ones who voted Leave to weaken the UK and destabilise the Union. They're well chuffed.

CandleInTheStorm · 13/04/2023 23:52

Barbecuebeans · 13/04/2023 23:46

I didn't say I didn't believe that people were angry. I said they were lied to about what was causing their anger. I was astonished people believed the lies. But then we had Covid and the anti vaxxers and it all became clear.

You still haven't said what people were angry about.

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I used to listen to their real life experiences and stories rather than their opinions on the media. If you genuinely have no idea what people were angry about, as in what people were actually experiencing during the mid 2000s to 2016 then I can't help you because it's a decade too late. Had people been listened to rather than written off as racists or right wing daily mail readers, then maybe it could have been different.

CandleInTheStorm · 13/04/2023 23:55

teneastereggs · 13/04/2023 23:46

Those who weren't being listened to in the first place unfortunately.

They're still not being listened to, they've just fucked themselves over and are poorer into the bargain and face potentially losing a lot of employment and other rights and risking peace in N.I

That depends where you were in the first place.

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/04/2023 23:59

MavisMcMinty · 12/04/2023 10:57

God, it’s depressing to see so many Leave voters on Mumsnet. It’s like the Daily Mail of social media.

It is easier to con someone than to persuade them they’ve been conned.

There actually aren't that many if you look at it. Mnet is an enormous site with less than 100(?) defenders of Leave.

So take heart.

blackpearwhitelilies · 14/04/2023 00:01

Question Time is not an accurate barometer of the nation’s views on the EU. They had eurosceptic MEPs on constantly and this was very rarely balanced by appearances by pro European MEPs. The woman who picked the audiences ended up with a reprimand for her far right activities.

Barbecuebeans · 14/04/2023 00:09

CandleInTheStorm · 13/04/2023 23:52

I used to listen to their real life experiences and stories rather than their opinions on the media. If you genuinely have no idea what people were angry about, as in what people were actually experiencing during the mid 2000s to 2016 then I can't help you because it's a decade too late. Had people been listened to rather than written off as racists or right wing daily mail readers, then maybe it could have been different.

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You still aren't addressing my points. I said in my earlier post what I think people were angry about and that they were blaming the wrong people. I was inviting you to say whether your experience was different as you allegedly know so many people that were angry about the EU.

It was the very people who weren't listening that promoted Brexit. Are those people that were angry then, over the moon now that the economy is worse and workers rights are being slashed? They were angry with the EU because they were lied to about the causes of their problems. If you can't see the connection between that and the media, then I don't think you understand the media at all.

HRTQueen · 14/04/2023 00:14

CandleInTheStorm · 13/04/2023 22:42

When you look at parties such as UKIP in 2010, for example, although they didn't win any seats until 2015, the amount of votes they received in that election had doubled since 2005. People were definitely making noises way before even the Tories came into power , and it continued until 2016, I remember it clearly. Only by then people had been ignored for so long and basically written off as racists so it exploded via the Brexit vote. People who think no one gave two hoots about the EU prior to 2016 were either blind or in circles who weren't affected in any sort of negative way. As I said, people don't go from not caring, to half of people voting leave if there weren't issues (dating back a decade) beforehand. The people still angry now about Brexit are clearly those who either didn't realise or chose to ignore those people who were getting more and more angry with the EU in the decade building up to the Brexit vote. The fact people on this thread actually think no one even gave a toss about the EU prior to the vote clearly shows the difference and divide in peoples lives and circles in the UK, which also shows the divide was there, Brexit or no Brexit.

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I agree with your post. I’m not sure all were angry towards the EU but they were very angry by being left behind by Labour/Coalition and the Tory party

The writing was on the wall many voters wanted a real change and this is what Brexit proposed

Im angry with the politicians who failed to bother to work on the referendum abs just went their merry way to support it as it’s was politically exciting

The referendum could have been stopped every single politician that votes to support having the referendum is responsible for the mess we are in but it’s easier to pass the buck on to voters who are used to being lied to who have little faith in our parties and who have become so self serving their are just a few in Parliament worthy of the role

blackpearwhitelilies · 14/04/2023 00:21

Actually quite a lot of the angriest people are those who fervently supported Leave and who now know they were conned. I live quite near Brixham. Try talking to the fishermen there . . . I’m furious about Brexit but I’m mild compared to them.

DarkDarkNight · 14/04/2023 00:24

Completely agree. There was so much illegality around the campaigning - the bus 😫, illegal donors/donations, Russian interference, Tory donor media barons using their newspapers to spread disinformation. Are we supposed to just be ok with it?

It is an act of self harm. No other economy is suffering like us and the only difference is Brexit. It is sickening this has been allowed to happen.

jcyclops · 14/04/2023 01:05

@Alexandra2001 MW has matched inflation, thats it, it hasn't in real terms increased, low paid aren't better off.

@CandleInTheStorm Considering in June 2000 the nmw was £3.60 for workers over the age of 22, and at the time of the Brexit vote in 2016, it was still only £7.20 for those over 25. So in 16 years, the nmw had only gone up by £3.60. How much had peoples bills gone up by though?

@Alexandra2001 So the NMW doubled in 16 years, despite very low inflation and whilst IN the EU.... did average wages double in those 16 years too? no they did not.

NMW has far outstripped inflation. In 2016 it had increased by 44% in real terms since 2000, and by 2021 it had increased by 63% in real terms since 2000 (148% in £s)
By 2016, average wages had increased by 18% in real terms since 2000, and by 2021 they had increased by 25% since 2000.

Data for the graph shown is from The Low Pay Commission
^^

To be getting more not less depressed about Brexit as time goes on

Angelil · 14/04/2023 02:31

usererror99 · 12/04/2023 06:50

You've been in France 15 years you don't have any moral right to vote in matters of British politics when you don't even live here

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Total rubbish @usererror99 . Brexit affected them DIRECTLY (e.g. having to apply for residency permits when previously none were needed) so they absolutely should have been allowed a vote on it.

The 15-year rule also totally disenfranchises people. As they are not French citizens (presumably) they don’t have a right to vote in GEs there either! Most countries are more humane. French citizens (for instance) keep their voting rights for life regardless of where they live.

Angelil · 14/04/2023 02:32

MintJulia · 12/04/2023 04:07

Brexit wasn't my choice but the changes to the labour force in the UK mean I have managed to maintain a well paid job in tech despite being 60 this year, so oddly it has benefitted me.

Even if it hadn't though, I can't see the point in getting depressed about it. How does that help? The vote was carried, we left. That was the electorate's decision. I accept it and get on with life.

The alternative would be to be depressed every time a vote doesn't go my way.

NOTHING to do with Brexit - so did my dad (also in tech, retired at over 60 out of choice pre-Brexit). Correlation is not causation.

GretaGood · 14/04/2023 06:31

Barbecuebeans · 13/04/2023 23:46

I didn't say I didn't believe that people were angry. I said they were lied to about what was causing their anger. I was astonished people believed the lies. But then we had Covid and the anti vaxxers and it all became clear.

You still haven't said what people were angry about.

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I said they were lied to about what was causing their anger

No they weren’t - they weren’t lied to , they weren’t talked to at all about anything because if they had been talked to or listened to we might have had all the BILLIONS poured into London transport spread out into the country , we might have had National Opera and the BBC - investment in industry. The Arts - something! Anything!
if you live 440miles from the Channel you aren’t concerned about good transport to you Brussels Office or your regular weekends in Paris because it’s too far and too expensive to travel to.
And now Covid, the banking crash, austerity have helped to slow the economy it’s not just boo-hoo boo-hoo Brexit.

Swiftbushome · 14/04/2023 06:36

@GretaGood and how is investment in your region now? Better without EU funds? I'm sure you're very pleased with the outcome. As long as it showed those pesky rich Londoners eh?

beguilingeyes · 14/04/2023 06:40

Barbecuebeans · 13/04/2023 23:46

I didn't say I didn't believe that people were angry. I said they were lied to about what was causing their anger. I was astonished people believed the lies. But then we had Covid and the anti vaxxers and it all became clear.

You still haven't said what people were angry about.

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And it's odd that quite often the Brexiteers and the Anti-vaxxers are the same people isn't it. I know some people down in Kent who are vehement on both subjects.