To be getting more not less depressed about Brexit as time goes on

[teneastereggs]

It all seems so pointless doesn't it, I feel sorry that some- probably many- people were duped into voting for it, I feel annoyed that the 48 percent who voted remain have been completely ignored, annoyed about all the divisions it has caused our country and all the rows, and overall just really fed up with the state we are in now. I thought it would be getting better by now but actually feel worse about it now than I did at the time.

MW has matched inflation, thats it, it hasn't in real terms increased, low paid aren't better off.

It traditionally goes up with inflation, pre brexit, but inflation was very low, yet another reason for low wage rises too that i should have mentioned earlier.

Following on from the excellent points up thread from pps about the decimation of our pharmaceutical and medical and scientific research sectors being examples of what is happening to many sectors of the uk economy …

….at the same time the gov fails to take action to increase the size of the civil service to take on all of the roles and responsibilities previously carried out by the EU.

If you take back control you need people in place in order to maintain that control!

And overall the gov is now clearly looking to reduce the size of the civil service!

Combine this with Jacob Rees Smug’s brilliant plan (now delayed) to (eventually) get rid of hundreds of pieces of EU law without considering what the impact of that will be, and you start to see that the government’s plan for the uk is a low cost, low regulation economy, something I doubt many people who had a say in the referendum voted for!

Are we not allowed to travel anymore?

I am not personally feeling worse about Brexit. Mainly because the worst thing about it was that we ended up with Mr Johnson as Prime Minister for three years and he is no longer in office. A man who were I supportive of the death penalty (I am not) I would wish to see hang.

Are we not allowed to travel anymore?

It's way more of a ballache now. Especially if you use the ferries you notice it. Longer wait times, restrictions on what you can bring in and out, searches etc.

Are we not allowed to travel anymore?

Yep we are but it’s more costly and time-consuming and the length of time is more restricted as are the goods you are allowed to take back and forth when you go.

The cost and inconvenience is the main issue though. And far from impacting negatively on the Tarquins, as people have said below - the Tarquins will always be rich enough to travel comfortably - as a direct result of Brexit there will be fewer dc from comprehensive schools getting a chance to visit another country on their annual school trip.

Yes we can still travel to Europe but I used to go to each country for a year at a time via contracts with language academies living in house shares and would study the language there at the same time and do exchanges and things like that. I spent about six years doing it and learned French, German, Spanish and Italian along the way. It was such an incredible experience. Traveling short term isn’t a problem but I think it would be harder to do what I did now.

Of course we're allowed to travel, but if you want to spend much time in an EU country then it is much more restricted. You now cannot spend more than 90 days in any six month period in any EU country. If you need to do that then you need to apply directly to the relevant embassy in London for a visa, which can get expensive. It is also by no means guaranteed that you will be granted said visa either.

My DD3 is currently in the middle of six months as a student in Italy as required by her UK university. We had to help her with funds to apply for a six month visa (fortunately it was granted).

Erasmus for UK students has also been withdrawn post Brexshit, so that's another source of funding that they have lost whilst other European students at the same university have retained it.

There are many groups of people who needed Freedom of Movement in their European travels for a variety of reasons. They no longer have it beyond the 90 days in 180 limit, which is the Schengen rule.

Of course, if all you ever want to do is take a couple of two week holidays in the Mediterranean in a year then it won't affect you much beyond the passport queues at airports. Those people will be OK and probably think "sod anyone else" who isn't.

The UK is going to shit. If you want to mesure his corrupt a country is, compare the state of the roads with the type of cars driving on them. Brexit was always just an excuse to change laws and filter more public money intok private hands.

@usererror99

i am still a British citizen. Many democracies in the world allow their citizens to vote, no matter where they might be resident at that point in time. I still own property in the uk, all my family and DHs are in the UK, we have investments in the UK, our children are British. what happens in the uk affects us.

i can’t vote in France unless I take French nationality. I have British nationality but I can’t vote there. So, effectively, I am disenfranchised.

would you extend the right to vote to people who are resident in the UK, but who are not British citizens?

Considering in June 2000 the nmw was £3.60 for workers over the age of 22, and at the time of the Brexit vote in 2016, it was still only £7.20 for those over 25. So in 16 years, the nmw had only gone up by £3.60. How much had peoples bills gone up by though? Hence why the nlw was introduced because wages were kept low for so long due to employers taking full advantage of EU workers and not having to increase wages as they were earning more here than they would in their home country. It wasn't the fault of the EU workers, it was the fault of the employee who, let's face it, if they could get away with paying less in wage to gain more in profit they will.

In 2019 the nmw was £8.21. Then when you think nmw, or nlw as it is now, is £10.42, so £3.12 increase since 2016, it went up more in the last 7 years then it did in the 16 years previous when wages were stagnant, and considering a decade of that was in the alleged "labour glory days", its obvious why wages stayed too low. They are set to go up again to over £11 next year. So the poorer workers are getting a fairer wage, even though it's still not enough. But it will take a long time for wages to catch up from being stagnant for all those years. As said on this thread, the col crises and foot hikes are mainly down to the war and covid, not brexit.

What the government euphemistically call the 'living' wage £10.42 is a different figure to that proposed by the living wage foundation.
https://www.livingwage.org.uk/

I agree it's definitely not enough! But after so many years of getting away with paying so little it's going to take time to catch up!

I agree it's definitely not enough! But after so many years of getting away with paying so little it's going to take time to catch up!

Is the NMW the same in all the countries across the EU ?

No. There are countries such as Luxembourg who pay the highest nmw, the UK is still amongst the highest when you also take into account our NHS which is included whether most UK citizens meet the National Insurance/Tax threshold or not.

This was always going to happen sadly, an unshackled Conservative govt is a dangerous thing for ordinary people of Britain.

And that is exactly why they wanted to leave the EU. Noone to protect us from them any more.
Even if it hadn't been an incredibly stupid thing to do to ourselves, doing it under a tory government - I have no words and said so at the time.

NMW is what its called, the Living wage is a totally different thing, as well you know and a lot higher, the Govt just like to confuse by pretending its enough to live on, which it is not, a 37hr working week on NMW will barely pay the average monthly rent on a 3 bed house.

So the NMW doubled in 16 years, despite very low inflation and whilst IN the EU.... did average wages double in those 16 years too? no they did not.

Low paid workers are not getting a fairer wage, growth in claiming in work benefits are higher than ever, the govt's response is to cut these benefits, making the poor even poorer, a 10% increase on a very low hourly wage equates to a very low wage increase.

Yes CV and Ukraine have played a huge part but the UK is bottom of the pile of G7/20 nations (Russia aside) & most economists pin that on Brexit, even some Govt ministers have said so too.

Just imagine in the not too distance future a great war rages on EU countries, they are being attacked on all sides and Ursula calls for her citizens. Every EU passport holder aged between 18 and 60, male and female, must be healthy and must report to Brussels to do their duty. Dual passport holders what would you do?

a) Here I am Ursula, I already have my EU flag in my bedroom, I'll see you in Brussels for my uniform - let me at em!
or
b) Now steady on, Ursula, I'm a British citizen...darling, darling, fetch our navy passports. Oh you mean the other passport. Never used it. Got it in case we had to join a 15 minute queue at the airport. You can check, Ursula, never been used, just sits in a drawer. Only got the blahdy thing because Nan Jean was born in Galway. Awful woman. I can hand it back...infact can I hand it back?

Think about it. A dystopian future which could play out.

The world is teetering at the moment. You never know what the future holds.

OP one day things could change to make you realise you are lucky. Don't dwell on things you cannot control and life is what you make it.

'uckin hell!!!

Imaginary wars & an imaginary EU army is now a supposed benefit of Brexit!!!! who would be invading Europe?

You have heard of NATO & article 5 ? though based on what you ve just written, probably not.

That was an interesting fantasy!

I do actually live in an EU country where every citizen is obligated to participate in National Defence. I won't be trying to hand my passport back if we get invaded or hide behind my (expired) British passport.

Er, have you been on the sherry? You do realise that the UK has not left NATO?

I voted against Brexit because I believed that it would be a long and difficult process uncoupling ourselves from legislation and agreements, and so its proven. But I have no great affection for the EU, which I see as a trade block with a mission creep that turned people against it.

Now that Brexit has happened, the UK has its own powers to set its own rules. If there are certain aspects of life that you don't like, its the government that can bring laws to effect change. Blame the government, not the exit from a trade block.

I'm more depressed about the war in Ukraine. So tragic.

Not being able to travel easily is minor.

We do need to allow more movement of people for work though, and not these ridiculous strict regulations.

For @WhoDatDen https://www.nato.int/nato-welcome/index.html