To be getting more not less depressed about Brexit as time goes on

[teneastereggs]

It all seems so pointless doesn't it, I feel sorry that some- probably many- people were duped into voting for it, I feel annoyed that the 48 percent who voted remain have been completely ignored, annoyed about all the divisions it has caused our country and all the rows, and overall just really fed up with the state we are in now. I thought it would be getting better by now but actually feel worse about it now than I did at the time.

Yes, I am getting the jist of the kind of people who are still really angry about Brexit... richer people. I only get that impression because half of their woes aren't things a lot of normal folk would do anyway, and the comments are very telling, especially the trade one as you say! Oh no, it's tragic now that the tradesman can charge a living wage and not be undercut by cheap EU workers... said only by their clients who could have afforded to pay more anyway. Most normal people would be thrilled that (usually men) who chose a trade instead of the more common academic route can now actually make a decent living.

For the poorest people, minimum wage has gone up and up the last few years which is good. Only employers who were happy to hire cheap labour benefitted from it.

I voted leave, we're kind of where I suspected we'd be right now, maybe slightly worse. It was always going to be a decade of pain before we even started to see any benefits.

The big mistake I made was to think that if we voted Leave we'd actually leave fully and promptly. I didn't reckon on three years of paralysis in Parliament then another couple of years of paralysis because of the pandemic. So we're currently in the position I expected us to be in by about 2018, meaning the worst is still to come.

If there had been another referendum before we left I'd have voted to remain simply because it became apparent that we were never going to leave properly anyway. I also made the mistake of thinking that if the vote went in favour of leave then remainers would have preferred to help the decision work instead of hoping it will all fail so that they would be "proved right."

Remember though, that the question in 2016 wasn't to preserve the status quo or get out. We were facing ever-tighter regulation and loss of control, the endgame is a United States of Europe. Whilst Brexit has made us weaker in the short and medium term we will be better off in a generation or few.

Care workers were in the same miserable position when we were in the EU, but the rabid remain crowd weren’t arsed because it was a lot of Eastern Europeans and lower working class women being exploited. All Brexit has done is reveal the rot under the bandage

You do realise that some of us posting might work in the social care sector or be reliant on carers to help get us through each day, and therefore care very much about the dreadful pay and conditions of care workers. But do go on with your hairy handing if it amuses you.

Why how has it effected you personally. Apart from the fact that you had the opportunity to get a COVID vacation before your piers in the EU.
How many people have actually worked abroad? Studied abroad? have you for example ever bought a holiday though a German website? Have you been unable to buy a French car? Go to Spain?

God, it’s depressing to see so many Leave voters on Mumsnet. It’s like the Daily Mail of social media.

It is easier to con someone than to persuade them they’ve been conned.

Tradesmen are not charging a living wage due to Brexit. They are actually making less money for themselves. Their prices have gone up because their costs have gone up for materials due to Brexit. It’s not because they are earning more take home pay.

They were never undercut by “cheap EU workers” because all tradesmen have to have U.K. qualifications and licences. They all live here and have the same cost of living. There is no evidence that a Polish plumber charged less than a British plumber.

The “cheap EU labour” is right wing doublespeak for the racist trope of “foreigners taking all our jobs”

I quoted a Remain poster using the words "Cheap EU workers" in reference to it being a good thing on this very thread, so that's why I replied to say it wasn't a good thing.

💯

I think it's going to get worse with the removal of EU laws (workers rights, environmental protections etc.)

I agree and I think this will now happen fairly quickly and without people really noticing until it's too late. It's the main focus for the Tory party at the moment. I also think the NHS as we know it won't exist within 5 years.

My mother (apolitical) voted leave for the £350m for the NHS. She’s furious about the whole mess now. I just tell her that’s what she voted for.

I do feel quite sorry for people like this. It's not their fault that they believed it, a fraud was committed.

Yes, the ripping up of our rights is one of the most frightening aspects of all this. The rich don't care as it's just made them richer and should not be allowed to do any more damage. Sad truth is if we did rejoin, we'd do so without most of the benefits we previously enjoyed.

I'm in what used to be an objective 1 funded area. There has been no investment to match what we used to get from the EU. Was devastated that I live in an area that majority voted leave. Remember that the press owners are also very rich and were prime promoters of leave.

Disaster capitalism and the loss of workers' rights was the name of the game right from the start for many of the leading Brexiters. Raab and Patel wrote a book about it. Jacob Rees-Mogg's dad wrote the leading book about it - Blood on the Streets. But yeah, we should all just 'move on' 'bore off' 'learn to live with it'. FFS.

There is slight hopeful news on that front. The bill is being delayed, potentially until the next election. There is a lot of concern about how potentially undemocratic the proposals are.

A key complaint is the way it would cut both houses of parliament out of decisions on which EU laws should be ditched, ceding that power to unelected civil servants and ministers. This is despite the fact that Rees-Mogg and his fellow Brexiters said that leaving the EU would be a way of restoring sovereignty to parliament.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/apr/09/tories-in-retreat-from-brexit-bill-to-scrap-thousands-of-eu-laws

But unfortunately the UK is looking to open its doors to even cheaper workers from outside the EU, so I’d be careful
what you wish for because we are replacing competition with the EU with competition with workers from all over the world.

And quite a few of the jobs filled by EU workers were jobs Brits apparently didn’t want to do anyway.

Sorry, I did not mean to imply you thought it was a good thing, I was not clear.
I was saying it doesn’t exist. It is a fabrication. If it did exist, I agree it would not be good.

You've been in France 15 years you don't have any moral right to vote in matters of British politics when you don't even live here

Actually any British person resident in the EU is at the sharp end of Brexit and should absolutely have had a say.

What a load of bollocks. Does that include the many Brits working and living in the EU who have spent fifteen years actually working for British companies or defending British interests and promoting British trade abroad?

@Elvis1956 my DH works all over the world, he's self-employed. He had to knock back a really lucrative contract in Europe earlier this year as that would have taken him over his 90 days Schengen allowance. He didn't have other work on (quiet time of year) so thousands down the drain that we would have had pre Brexit.

They should have had a vote. I can see the logic in the law that says expats gone so long cannot vote in elections, but I don’t think it should be applied to no binding referendums. Especially when EU citizens who had been here only long enough to register to vote (weeks!) were able to vote on Brexit.

@FrostyFifi Are you sure? According to some posters here only imaginary middle class people called Tarquin ever benefited from the right to live and work i the EU.

Cheap EU labour on tap was never a good thing! Maybe for the employer who could get away with paying dirt cheep wages, but not to everyone else who suffered from the stagnant wage over the years, meaning people couldn't afford to actually live without having to recieve some sort of top up benefit to just recieve a living income

EU workers were a handy excuse after the global financial crash of 2008, to ensure profits stayed high and wages v low, employers can offer higher wages whenever they want, the Govt of course lead the way with public sector pay freezes... very few EU workers (outside of health) worked for the Govt, so why the pay freezes?

Now we have Ukraine and Covid to blame... meanwhile the rich get richer! look at FTSE director pay?

Its just like supermarkets blame inflation for price rises yet post multi billion pound profit margins.

When will we wake up?