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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think DPs ex is ridiculous?

347 replies

DrMaxwell · 09/04/2023 14:53

So, DP and his ex have shared care of their 3 DC, a week at a time. During termtime they swap on a Friday with one parent dropping at school and the other collecting. The arrangement is to swap back around 3ish during holidays.

Last week the DC said that their mum had gone to her home country to visit her parents as they are unwell. Might have been helpful to know in case of emergency but otherwise not our business.

She emailed telling DP to drop the kids at a childminder at 3pm. He replied asking if she could confirm when she was returning to the country and he was happy to drop them home when she got back, but didn't feel comfortable leaving them with a childminder with no idea how long they'd be there. She wouldn't give any information and insisted he drop them off at 3pm. He said no and that he'd drop them back to her. 3pm came and she said she'd called the police saying he was refusing to return the children against a court order. We didn't hear any more until 8pm when she messaged saying she was home and wanted the kids back.

I know this is a really petty issue but it's been irritating me all weekend.

OP posts:
Addymontgomeryfan · 10/04/2023 11:21

Changechangechanging · 10/04/2023 11:03

Sometimes co-parenting without flexibility is the only way forwards

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This is one of the best comments on this thread. Unfortunately until you are in that situation you don't understand it. Parents don't want to resort to this, but sometimes it is the best option.

SunnySaturdayMorning · 10/04/2023 11:21

YABVU. The arrangements she makes on her time are none of your partners business.

AllOfThemWitches · 10/04/2023 11:22

Tomkirkman · 10/04/2023 11:17

What agenda? The agenda of ‘we can’t really tell’. Yes what an agenda. Suggesting there could be 2 versions of this story that are very different and it’s difficult to judge Ops dp or his ex?

Yes the childminder is in unknown to the Dad but known to the mother. Like lots of childcare providers are when the parents aren’t together.

Whats your agenda?

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There are literally always 'two sides' to stories like this. Do you make a habit of going onto threads and saying 'there's probably more to it' because there generally ALWAYS will be.

I think you are set on the idea of the mum being a victim here even though everything OP has said about her suggests she is controlling.

BadNomad · 10/04/2023 11:25

The issue wasn't the childminder at all. He was clearly happy to drop them off there if his conditions were met. None of those conditions were him needing to know the childminder. His issue was with his ex not telling him her plans. He was already annoyed that he wasn't informed she was leaving the country, and now he was making an issue of her not informing him of her return. This wasn't about the children. He knew where they would be. This is about a man who thinks he's entitled to know the movements of his ex.

Tomkirkman · 10/04/2023 11:27

AllOfThemWitches · 10/04/2023 11:22

There are literally always 'two sides' to stories like this. Do you make a habit of going onto threads and saying 'there's probably more to it' because there generally ALWAYS will be.

I think you are set on the idea of the mum being a victim here even though everything OP has said about her suggests she is controlling.

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I didn’t say ‘probably’ at all. I said could.

Do you make a habit of going on threads and assuming there couldn’t ever be a bit more to the situation and wonder how it came about?

I have no idea if the mum is a, or the, victim. Not sure how many ways I can say it.

It’s really difficult to say who is the person being unreasonable. Or if it’s a bit both. And I don’t get how anyone can say ‘it’s definitely her’ or equally ‘it’s definitely’ him.

Not really sure how you aren’t grasping that.

AllOfThemWitches · 10/04/2023 11:30

BadNomad · 10/04/2023 11:25

The issue wasn't the childminder at all. He was clearly happy to drop them off there if his conditions were met. None of those conditions were him needing to know the childminder. His issue was with his ex not telling him her plans. He was already annoyed that he wasn't informed she was leaving the country, and now he was making an issue of her not informing him of her return. This wasn't about the children. He knew where they would be. This is about a man who thinks he's entitled to know the movements of his ex.

Riiight so you would be happy to leave your kids with a person you don't know for an unspecified amount of time without asking any questions. You are a more laid back person than me, for sure.

DothThouTwerk · 10/04/2023 11:31

Tomkirkman · 10/04/2023 11:27

I didn’t say ‘probably’ at all. I said could.

Do you make a habit of going on threads and assuming there couldn’t ever be a bit more to the situation and wonder how it came about?

I have no idea if the mum is a, or the, victim. Not sure how many ways I can say it.

It’s really difficult to say who is the person being unreasonable. Or if it’s a bit both. And I don’t get how anyone can say ‘it’s definitely her’ or equally ‘it’s definitely’ him.

Not really sure how you aren’t grasping that.

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I think people grasp it fine and don't even disagree. Just stating that people never say it when it's a woman posting about her ex. No one seems to care about the two sides then. It's quite a stark contrast when you see it happen.

BadNomad · 10/04/2023 11:38

AllOfThemWitches · 10/04/2023 11:30

Riiight so you would be happy to leave your kids with a person you don't know for an unspecified amount of time without asking any questions. You are a more laid back person than me, for sure.

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But he was willing to drop them back at the unknown (to him) childminder if the ex told him when she was returning. It didn't matter what time she was returning at that day, it didn't matter if they were going to be there for hours, he would have dropped them off happily if she just told him.

The OP's own words.

"If she'd said she'd be back that day he would happily have dropped them off."

Who the childminder was and how long they'd be there that day wasn't important. The childminder wasn't the issue.

AllOfThemWitches · 10/04/2023 11:41

BadNomad · 10/04/2023 11:38

But he was willing to drop them back at the unknown (to him) childminder if the ex told him when she was returning. It didn't matter what time she was returning at that day, it didn't matter if they were going to be there for hours, he would have dropped them off happily if she just told him.

The OP's own words.

"If she'd said she'd be back that day he would happily have dropped them off."

Who the childminder was and how long they'd be there that day wasn't important. The childminder wasn't the issue.

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I disagree. I would not want my kids with a 'childminder' overnight when they could be with me. I absolutely would be questioning that. And since we are speculating, how do we know the kids did not express a desire to stay with their parent over a childminder?

AllOfThemWitches · 10/04/2023 11:43

In fact, if my ex was unavailable for handover and was being vague about how long our child would spend with a 'third party' unknown to me, I would refuse to drop them off full stop until I knew he was there.

WheelsUp · 10/04/2023 11:44

AllOfThemWitches · 10/04/2023 11:30

Riiight so you would be happy to leave your kids with a person you don't know for an unspecified amount of time without asking any questions. You are a more laid back person than me, for sure.

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If you divorce, you don't have control over who your child sees during their time with the other parent. You have no right to meet them, vet them or know about them because each parent is deemed capable enough of judging who their child should meet during their time.
It works both ways- you can organise childcare or have sleepovers without your ex interfering.

The right to know details like what time your child will be picked up from the childminder is for parents who are still together.

AllOfThemWitches · 10/04/2023 11:47

WheelsUp · 10/04/2023 11:44

If you divorce, you don't have control over who your child sees during their time with the other parent. You have no right to meet them, vet them or know about them because each parent is deemed capable enough of judging who their child should meet during their time.
It works both ways- you can organise childcare or have sleepovers without your ex interfering.

The right to know details like what time your child will be picked up from the childminder is for parents who are still together.

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No, it's a shame really when you know that your ex can't be trusted to actually keep your children safe and of course, we all know that 'third parties' especially if unrelated, can be a safeguarding issue.

Tomkirkman · 10/04/2023 11:48

DothThouTwerk · 10/04/2023 11:31

I think people grasp it fine and don't even disagree. Just stating that people never say it when it's a woman posting about her ex. No one seems to care about the two sides then. It's quite a stark contrast when you see it happen.

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No the poster I was replying doesn’t grasp it because they are convinced I am saying he must definitely be the problem. It’s in the post I am replying to.

I do often post that women have no right to personally know the childcare their male ex uses. That’s always my reply. Plenty of people reply similar.

So it is 100 per cent said. Not by everybody. But it’s not been said by everybody on here either.

BadNomad · 10/04/2023 11:48

AllOfThemWitches · 10/04/2023 11:41

I disagree. I would not want my kids with a 'childminder' overnight when they could be with me. I absolutely would be questioning that. And since we are speculating, how do we know the kids did not express a desire to stay with their parent over a childminder?

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That's not his (or your) decision to make if there is a court order in place. If the court order says "return at 3pm" you can't go against that without permission of the other parent. That's the whole point of court orders. It is to prevent one or both parents from doing whatever they want with regard to access. Sure, it might have been nice, and easier for the ex, for her to say "I'm not getting back until late, do you want to keep the children for an extra night?" But there might be a reason why she doesn't want to do this. We don't know why. They probably have this court order for a reason, and it's best to stick to it so no one can start messing around.

AllOfThemWitches · 10/04/2023 11:49

Regards, if I knew my ex was not available for handover and expected me to drop my kids off with someone I don't know without actually communicating with me properly, I would be thinking 'hmm this doesn't feel ok' and I'd be keeping them with me and preparing for backlash.

Tomkirkman · 10/04/2023 11:50

AllOfThemWitches · 10/04/2023 11:43

In fact, if my ex was unavailable for handover and was being vague about how long our child would spend with a 'third party' unknown to me, I would refuse to drop them off full stop until I knew he was there.

And that’s how you end up with a court order. A judge would never rule that both parents have to know the person providing childcare on behalf of one of the parents.

You seem to disbelieve this ever happens. Whilst also demonstrating how it ends up coming about.

Gondala · 10/04/2023 11:50

AllOfThemWitches · 10/04/2023 11:43

In fact, if my ex was unavailable for handover and was being vague about how long our child would spend with a 'third party' unknown to me, I would refuse to drop them off full stop until I knew he was there.

Then you would be in breach of the court order.

AllOfThemWitches · 10/04/2023 11:50

BadNomad · 10/04/2023 11:48

That's not his (or your) decision to make if there is a court order in place. If the court order says "return at 3pm" you can't go against that without permission of the other parent. That's the whole point of court orders. It is to prevent one or both parents from doing whatever they want with regard to access. Sure, it might have been nice, and easier for the ex, for her to say "I'm not getting back until late, do you want to keep the children for an extra night?" But there might be a reason why she doesn't want to do this. We don't know why. They probably have this court order for a reason, and it's best to stick to it so no one can start messing around.

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No. I can, have and would again.

Gondala · 10/04/2023 11:52

AllOfThemWitches · 10/04/2023 11:50

No. I can, have and would again.

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When you do this, depending on the judge you meet in court, you risk losing custody of your DC.

BadNomad · 10/04/2023 11:52

AllOfThemWitches · 10/04/2023 11:49

Regards, if I knew my ex was not available for handover and expected me to drop my kids off with someone I don't know without actually communicating with me properly, I would be thinking 'hmm this doesn't feel ok' and I'd be keeping them with me and preparing for backlash.

That's when you get the police called on you and a judge gives you a bollocking in court which can lead to you losing access eventually in some cases.

AllOfThemWitches · 10/04/2023 11:52

And that’s how you end up with a court order. A judge would never rule that both parents have to know the person providing childcare on behalf of one of the parents.

Ha. Shows what you know really. You absolutely can have 'agreed persons' included in a court order.

SkyandSurf · 10/04/2023 11:53

Your DP was carrying on like a muppet and you were enabling him.

He was being incredibly unreasonable and petty.

If he was actually concerned that the other parent wouldn't be back to collect them he could had said to the childminder at drop off 'here's my number if there are any issues I am happy to come back for them.'

Did he manage to express any concern for her sick parents in between creating more stress and work for the mother of his children?

Oh, and he's not controlling or petty with you? I'm sure he was lovely to his ex at the start when things were good.

AllOfThemWitches · 10/04/2023 11:53

BadNomad · 10/04/2023 11:52

That's when you get the police called on you and a judge gives you a bollocking in court which can lead to you losing access eventually in some cases.

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Quite the opposite in my experience. :)

For a start, there would need to be 'power of arrest' involved.

BadNomad · 10/04/2023 11:54

AllOfThemWitches · 10/04/2023 11:52

And that’s how you end up with a court order. A judge would never rule that both parents have to know the person providing childcare on behalf of one of the parents.

Ha. Shows what you know really. You absolutely can have 'agreed persons' included in a court order.

Eh? You can't just refuse to return children when a court orders stipulates you return the children. If you have an issue with who looks after your children, you go to court first. But no judge is going to say a childminder can't be used.

AllOfThemWitches · 10/04/2023 11:56

It seems that people are wanging on about what courts and judges and police would do without actually having any knowledge or experience.

No, the police will not get involved over a parent keeping their child, even if they are breaching a court order. They will advise you to make an emergency application to court. If that happens, a judge will decide whether you were acting reasonably or not.