To think DPs ex is ridiculous?

[DrMaxwell]

So, DP and his ex have shared care of their 3 DC, a week at a time. During termtime they swap on a Friday with one parent dropping at school and the other collecting. The arrangement is to swap back around 3ish during holidays.

Last week the DC said that their mum had gone to her home country to visit her parents as they are unwell. Might have been helpful to know in case of emergency but otherwise not our business.

She emailed telling DP to drop the kids at a childminder at 3pm. He replied asking if she could confirm when she was returning to the country and he was happy to drop them home when she got back, but didn't feel comfortable leaving them with a childminder with no idea how long they'd be there. She wouldn't give any information and insisted he drop them off at 3pm. He said no and that he'd drop them back to her. 3pm came and she said she'd called the police saying he was refusing to return the children against a court order. We didn't hear any more until 8pm when she messaged saying she was home and wanted the kids back.

I know this is a really petty issue but it's been irritating me all weekend.

100%. Didn’t you realise that every man is abusive controlling & coercive on MN & that whatever a mother does is absolutely fine regardless of whether it’s unreasonable

But if there's a history of the OPs DP demanding information from his Ex that he doesn't need then actually it could have hurt her to do so as it would have blurred any boundaries she had established. The issue could also have been avoided if the OPs DP respected the boundary his ex put in place by following the court ordered agreement to return them to her care (whether that is her personally or the paid childcare she had engaged) at the appointed time without the caveat of doing so only if he's given personal information about her whereabouts and schedule.

She told him to drop the DC at the childminders ... most CMs I know don't do overnight care so I would infer from her saying "Drop them at the CMs at 3pm" she would be home the same day.

This isn't him being concerned for the Ex's need to use paid childcare and wanting to make it easier for her (IE him offering to keep the children an hour or two longer so she wasn't out of pocket) it was about him wanting to exert control over the situation because she wouldn't bend to his demands for information he didn't need.

Then that's when flexibility does come into play because the dc communicate with the parent, so it's about their wants, and its less about one parent trying to control the other. Every situation varies, though, and often dc end up making their own minds up about who they want to stay with more. Little kids are easier to enforce a court order on, whereas try getting a teen out the door! But by this point, the other parent tend to realise it's the child's want (because they tell the parent) rather than the other parent refusing access.

A paid childminder is hardly dropping them off at a random person's house. It's childcare.

Well, for those of you who would rather drop your kids off than breach a court order, you'd surely still want to know how long until their parent will be back? If nothing else so you can let them know.

It's none of your business, or his.

He replied asking if she could confirm when she was returning to the country and he was happy to drop them home when she got back, but didn't feel comfortable leaving them with a childminder with no idea how long they'd be there.

Anyway, if this were written about a mum not feeling comfortable, the replies absolutely would have been different. Denying that, I think, is being disingenuous.

But we do it every day with school ... I co-parent 50/50 with my Ex, I drop DD off at school on a Monday and know she will be going to her dad's that evening ... I don't know exactly when she will be getting home, I just know at some point after 3.45pm she will leave the school grounds and then will arrive at her dad's house. What her dad is doing before he gets home is irrelevant to me. As long as I know he is going to be home at some point I don't care if he stops off at the gym after work or if his train is delayed, as long as he gets home and that DD wasn't unattended. DD is 13 now so can be left home alone for short periods but when she was younger all I needed to know was that she was being looked after by someone

How do you know the CM is unknown to them? This could be a regular CM the ex uses and so the children are known to them (and them to the children), the fact the OPs DP doesn't know them is irrelevant when the Ex has confirmed that she does ... My ExDH doesn't personally know all of my childcare options for DD, if I choose to leave her with someone ExDH doesn't know when she's with me then that's my decision and he can't override that unless there is a genuine reason to do so.

How do you know it was an unknown amount of time? The Ex is refusing to tell the OPs DP her schedule, but that doesn't mean the CM doesn't know it. All he needs to know is that he should drop the DC at the CMs at 3pm. The Ex may have told the CM that she was picking them up at a specific time that she just didn't want to share with OPs DP; the CM may have a policy of "pay for the session and pick up at any time before my closing time at Xpm" and the Ex knew she'd be back before that time but not exactly when; the Ex may have negotiated an agreement of the DC arriving at a set time and her aiming to collect at approx Xpm but there being some flexibility and if she was late due to travel delays then the CM was happy to accommodate this for her.

Yes, I'd want to know, but I would also recognise that I don't actually have the personal right nor legal right to know.

Sorry state of affairs when parents refuse to communicate with each other. Poor kids, ultimately. Witnessing shouting and swearing, having the police called, parents who have no idea what to tell them, etc.

Maybe not but hopefully you'd feel able to ask and get an answer.

The parent knew what to tell DC. 'You are going to the childminders and they will let you know the plan'. You can't have it both ways, communicating indirectly is better than shouting and swearing. You said your DCs Dad is in prison, so you should surely be aware that sometimes we have to make the best of shitty situations.

I'm not denied anything. There are plenty of people/parents/mothers who think children belong to the mother first and that they should always be with her and that she should get the final say on everything that happens to them. I am not and never have been one of those people. Nor are a lot of people on MN. There are a lot of us who recognise that children are not property, and are not "owned" by their mother who then by her grace lets the father spend time with her children as long as he sticks to her terms. Those people are wrong. And if this situation was reversed, those people would be wrong, and I would still say exactly what I've said here. OP's partner has no right to withhold the children.

If the options were "drop the children off to paid, licenced childcare that has been arranged by Ex as per the legal court order, but have no idea about Ex's itinerary" or "Keep the children unless given exactly the information requested from Ex, breach the court order and risk being dragged back to court accused of controlling behaviour and potentially have custody reduced" then I'd be choosing the former.

The CM will not have just agreed to have the child for an indefinite period of time, there will have been a discussion with the Ex regarding pick up, even if that was just "My flight gets in at 5pm, it should take about an hour from the airport to get the kids but I can't guarantee I'll be there bang on time, what's your absolute latest pick up?" but that information is not something that the OPs DP needs to know ... All they need to do is tell the DC "I'm dropping you off at CMs at 3pm, and your mum will pick you up later. If there's any problems we'll let you know" and then leave it at that.

So, DP and his ex have shared care of their 3 DC, a week at a time.

In answer to some questions, we don't know if she uses the CM usually, DP wasn't aware of her before this occasion.

Based on this info IMO your DP is NBU it's shared custody between the two of them and if done by the courts his ex should have at some point definitely introduced the CM to your DP so he would know that his DC were being placed with someone qualified to do so.

It's not nessassarily controlling his ex when he has no knowledge of the CM, there's a chance he may just want to know his DC are being left in safe hands.

Not every father is out to make life difficult for the ex, there is a possibility, even in the world of MN they may genuinely care about their DC.

No, because it's none of my business. Once the dc were dropped off, the childminder would know when mum was returning home because they would know how long they were asked to look after the dc for. In this case it would have been:

Mum: My ex will be dropping the dc off to you at 3pm.

Childminder: OK, how long do you need the care for?

Mum: I should be back around 8pm.

Childminder: OK.

That's how childminding works. So the dc would have been informed how long Mum would be once they got there.

The dad didn't need to know any of this information and part of this controlling behaviour is writing the narrative that their mum has asked him to drop off the dc "at a strangers house for an unknown amount of time". This isn't the case at all, he just didn't need to know the information beyond "drop them at childminder at 3pm" which appears to have killed him so he's made a big drama of it all. You can see why the mum probably has these boundaries in place.

And if I didn't get an answer I still wouldn't stamp my foot and say "Well, fuck this court order, you're not getting them back until you tell me."

I co parent 50/50 and as we both work we also have child minders. Absolutely no way would I, or my Dh, refuse to disclose when we were back in the country and we often swap so that the kids get the most time with parents, rather than a childminder. As, you know, it is the children's best interest.

Your DP's ex was being a dick. I don't know why they are that adversorial but the poor bloody kids.

I guess calling the police over it was reasonable though 😆

I co parent 50/50 and as we both work we also have child minders. Absolutely no way would I, or my Dh, refuse to disclose when we were back in the country and we often swap so that the kids get the most time with parents, rather than a childminder. As, you know, it is the children's best interest.

Thank fuck some people take being parents seriously.

Hes made the drama? She called the police...

If the children have not used this childminder before, then it is a random person. Dad dropping the children at a strangers home is simply irresponsible parenting and it would be his fault of something happened to them.

She trusts him enough to leave the country, knowing they are in his care and knowing she could not get back quickly in an emergency. It doesn't sound as those she has much of an issue with his ability to parent, yet they simply couldn't just stay with him a few more hours while she was not there and she was so worried, she had to involve the police. Yeah, that doesn't sound at all like petty behaviour.

I would imagine she contacted the police purely as evidence that the court order had been breached, should it ever be needed in future court proceedings. Most people would be aware the police wouldn't do anything.

I have never felt the need to officially "introduce" my childcare to my ExDH and I have never felt the need to vet the childcare my ExDH uses either.

It's irrelevant now as DD is 13 so doesn't have childcare but even when she was younger if it was a babysitter or other childcare only I was using, on my time, that I was paying for then my ExDH had no need to any information. As we co-parent amicably if I needed childcare ExDH was always the first port of call I'd ask but if he wasn't available then the only follow up I'd give him was "Don't worry, I've got Friday night sorted now", o wouldn't be going into detail about who/what/where/when/why my childcare was who it was, it would be a courtesy to let him know I had it covered.

The only time I'd ever officially "introduce" ExDH to any childcare was if there was a possibility that he would be the one picking DD up from them and so they both needed to know who the other one was - eg one after-school club would only release children to someone on the list of "approved collectors" so even though DD only ever used the ASC a couple of days a week when she was with me due to my work schedule I had ExDH (along with my parents, one of my siblings and Ex PILs) on that list, just in case of emergency, and they were all aware that DD attended along with the address/contact number.