Page 13 | Or is teaching 6 Yr old about crucixation out of order?

Whostoblame · 2023-04-08T19:30:25+00:00

I might be over reacting but after multiple nights on the trot sleeping no more than 45-60 mins at a time I'm at the end of my tether. 6 year old goes to a non dom school and we are agnostic/atheist at home. School have been teaching them about Jesus and Easter etc including how Jesus was crucified. I now have a sobbing child every night who can't get the pictures out if her mind (and I'm not surprised!!)and subsequently cant sleep from about midnight, crying. Aibu to complain to school that 6 is way too young to be taught this?!

OMG12 · 09/04/2023 23:48

Forgooodnesssakenow · 09/04/2023 23:00

😂 I couldn't be less in a state, my point is that Christians don't want to accept how inappropriate these stories are for small children hence attempting to make you understand with equivalent stories not mired in Christianity.

I love this idea that I must be hugely upset or hysterical to be stating the problems with teaching torture and murder to primary kids

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Presumably you would like to get rid of guy Fawkes night celebrations too? I mean explaining to kids how traitors were burned alive?

SoCunningYouCanStickATailOnItAndCallItAFox · 10/04/2023 00:51

That was witches. Traitors were hung drawn and quartered. 😁 But we burn the effigy symbolically for the gunpowder intended to blow up parliament.

ReadersD1gest · 10/04/2023 01:18

Forgooodnesssakenow · 09/04/2023 23:00

😂 I couldn't be less in a state, my point is that Christians don't want to accept how inappropriate these stories are for small children hence attempting to make you understand with equivalent stories not mired in Christianity.

I love this idea that I must be hugely upset or hysterical to be stating the problems with teaching torture and murder to primary kids

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You are, you know. You're coming across as very overwrought indeed.

Forgooodnesssakenow · 10/04/2023 01:19

OMG12 · 09/04/2023 23:48

Presumably you would like to get rid of guy Fawkes night celebrations too? I mean explaining to kids how traitors were burned alive?

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Did you see I was raised northern Irish Catholic? We're kind of on guys Fawkes side 😂

Forgooodnesssakenow · 10/04/2023 01:38

ReadersD1gest · 10/04/2023 01:18

You are, you know. You're coming across as very overwrought indeed.

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Overwrought... I see it's easier to level judgements at me than address any points regarding the suitability or otherwise of torture and execution as material suitable for a 6 year old generall y? 🙄

ReadersD1gest · 10/04/2023 01:39

Forgooodnesssakenow · 10/04/2023 01:38

Overwrought... I see it's easier to level judgements at me than address any points regarding the suitability or otherwise of torture and execution as material suitable for a 6 year old generall y? 🙄

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It's all been said, but you keep ramping up the hype. Why?

Forgooodnesssakenow · 10/04/2023 01:43

ReadersD1gest · 10/04/2023 01:39

It's all been said, but you keep ramping up the hype. Why?

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Has it? Where have you addressed whether you think capital punishment in general is acceptable? Would you want your child of this age seeing a lifesize statue of someone dying in the electric chair for example?

GerronBuzanDoThaWomwok · 10/04/2023 02:32

Forgooodnesssakenow · 10/04/2023 01:19

Did you see I was raised northern Irish Catholic? We're kind of on guys Fawkes side 😂

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😎😂

OMG12 · 10/04/2023 05:01

Forgooodnesssakenow · 10/04/2023 01:19

Did you see I was raised northern Irish Catholic? We're kind of on guys Fawkes side 😂

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Ah so you support terrorist activity trying to blow up parliament and kill hundreds of people and are ok with kids knowing that? Yet a statue of one bloke on the cross is traumatic -ok!!!!🤦‍♀️

whyhere · 10/04/2023 07:25

Sherrystrull · 09/04/2023 20:15

@Forgooodnesssakenow

That's not what I'm saying.

Removing children from lessons that teach them different beliefs and how people around the world live their lives is incredibly limited for the children and their understanding of the world.

Exactly. Whatever one's personal beliefs, it's important for children to learn that others think differently. Lack of understanding of others' positions is where intolerance begins.

whyhere · 10/04/2023 07:28

Emotionalsupportviper · 09/04/2023 20:44

This.

And the misconception of a 'sky fairy" - we don't believe that. Or that there is an old man on a cloud who watches us trying to catch us out.

What we (or ay least I) do believe is that there is a greater being -one that can't be described using human words because it is so very different from us. A being more different from ourselves that trying to understand it is like - I dunno - a woodlouse trying to understand and describe the complexities of the human psyche.

This being is benevolent and created all universes and the life in them through an outpouring of sheer love, and that everything is in a delicate balance, but that humanity is very flawed and upset the balance. The great creative force (God) works in us and through us to bring everything back into balance, but does not force the divine influence on us, but works to open our hearts to the injustices around us - injustices affecting all of creation, not just humanity, but every living thing - and wants us to work to put them right.

This divine spirit took on physical form as Jesus Christ - both setting us an example and showing us that the Godself was also prepared to suffer as necessary in solidarity, and wasn't just saying 'Ah - it's not that bad. Just get on with it."

It IS all about love, and community and hope. and fellowship not only with all of humanity, but with all of creation - beautiful, delicately balanced creation which we have knocked out of kilter with our selfishness and greed.

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This :-). Exactly this :-)

whyhere · 10/04/2023 07:42

There are some very odd assumptions being made on this thread, which I can only assume come from people who have never been in a school assembly in the weeks leading up to Easter.

I've been privileged to be invited into state and private schools, church and secular, for the past twenty-five years. I always, without fail, when in a non-religious school, whether primary or secondary, make it clear that 'this is what Christians believe' and add that 'people of other faiths or none take a different view.' I have never, with any age group, gone into graphic detail about the physical awfulness of crucifixion - it simply isn't necessary. The essence of what the life, death and resurrection of Jesus are all about doesn't need to horrify anyone.

And for those who are still saying that Jesus didn't exist, and the events of the New Testament didn't happen, please have a Google! By all means then deny that it is true (after all, some people still think the earth is flat) but please don't keep passing on these myths to the younger generations.

CherryHouse · 10/04/2023 07:55

We’ve just stuck with “it’s old stories that some people believe”. We avoided the dungeons at Tower of London too. No idea why schools need to go into any level of detail at such a young age

Emotionalsupportviper · 10/04/2023 08:07

OldFan · 09/04/2023 22:15

It IS all about love

@Emotionalsupportviper Not really. It's maybe about Justice as He defines it. God hates loads of different people- they can turn over a new leaf whenever, though.

No - God hates the behaviour of loads of people - not the people themselves.

Emotionalsupportviper · 10/04/2023 08:20

GerronBuzanDoThaWomwok · 09/04/2023 23:32

During the Liturgy of Good Friday the faithful approach the crucifix, and venerate it, usually with a bow, before kissing it. Young children, teenagers, toddlers, old men kneeling down...an entirely human and moving response to the enormity of the Saviour's sacrifice and love for us.
You can't have Christianity without the Cross.

Indeed.

The crucifixion and resurrection are central.

Had Jesus died in any other way he would not have fulfilled the OT prophecies.

Had he not been resurrected he would have been just another ten-a-penny street-corner prophet trying to spread God's word, who had been killed for getting on the nerves of the Romans and the priests. Jerusalem was full of them.

It was Jesus' death on the cross and his subsequent resurrection that we Christians believe revealed him as God Incarnate and the promised Messiah.

bossonext · 10/04/2023 08:53

whyhere · 10/04/2023 07:42

There are some very odd assumptions being made on this thread, which I can only assume come from people who have never been in a school assembly in the weeks leading up to Easter.

I've been privileged to be invited into state and private schools, church and secular, for the past twenty-five years. I always, without fail, when in a non-religious school, whether primary or secondary, make it clear that 'this is what Christians believe' and add that 'people of other faiths or none take a different view.' I have never, with any age group, gone into graphic detail about the physical awfulness of crucifixion - it simply isn't necessary. The essence of what the life, death and resurrection of Jesus are all about doesn't need to horrify anyone.

And for those who are still saying that Jesus didn't exist, and the events of the New Testament didn't happen, please have a Google! By all means then deny that it is true (after all, some people still think the earth is flat) but please don't keep passing on these myths to the younger generations.

Comparing non-Christians to flat earthers. Nice.

whyhere · 10/04/2023 08:57

bossonext · 10/04/2023 08:53

Comparing non-Christians to flat earthers. Nice.

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Not in the least: please re-read :-)

MeinKraft · 10/04/2023 08:58

School have been teaching my 6 year old about this too. He very seriously informed me that Jesus died and then he revived, as though he's a character in Roblox

Sortyourlifeout · 10/04/2023 09:17

OldFan · 09/04/2023 17:49

I was so scared of ending up in hell as a child.

@TheWelshposter Did it possibly make you try and behave better than you otherwise might've done?

' The Beginning of Wisdom is the Fear of God. '

This is NOT ok.

Think you should find yourself a different church.

Sortyourlifeout · 10/04/2023 09:20

Whostoblame · 09/04/2023 18:50

This thread wasn't made to bash any religion - it's cropped up at Easter time given the nature of the story, nothing I can do about that - I mentioned the fact that we are a non religious household for context only, no she hasn't seen crosses or crucifixes and we don't have any of that chat at home, she hasn't been in a church. I have no issue with religion, any religion, you want to believe then fantastic for you, if my daughter wants to believe then great I'll support it. My issue was the young age of my child and this particular fact of Easter, i feel the utter savagery human beings can inflict upon one another may be best saved for when they are more emotionally mature to handle the conversation and the thought of it. Some agree, some dont, fair enough. I will be having a chat with the school after the holidays as I said to find out what exactly it is they've been shown/told etc. But please don't take this as a "Christian bashing" thread at an important time of year, that was never my intention, my only concern was my child. Thanks to all who've replied

I don't think anyone thinks your thread was anything other than an enquiry on the necessity of teaching kids about crucifixion. It's some of the replies that have turned it into Christian-bashing thread

Sortyourlifeout · 10/04/2023 09:25

Forgooodnesssakenow · 09/04/2023 19:27

The reason I know my 5 yr old would ask is partly because I know him and partly because at my mum's funeral the priest, who was batshit crazy in a number of ways, declared that she wasn't really gone and we'd see her again, and my then 7 yr old neice has never forgotten it in a decade, and argues for weeks the priest had said granny was coming back. So yeah, they do declare that death is infact not final

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And you explained to your child what he meant by that, right? Because if you'd put a little bit of effort in, then your child would have understood and not needed to think that granny was coming back in the near future.

Your comment of 'the priest was batshit crazy' is fucking disgusting and you need to have a word with yourself. And then talk to your child so that they have a decent level of knowledge that lots of people believe lots of different things.

Sortyourlifeout · 10/04/2023 09:28

Saniflo · 09/04/2023 20:01

I would be furious. But we are atheists and have opted out of all religious activities/teachings at our school. I don't want my children learning about such nonsense. There is no need for it in this day and age.

Withholding your children from education and teaching them to be ignorant of other people's religions and beliefs is nothing to be proud of.

Sortyourlifeout · 10/04/2023 09:31

Emotionalsupportviper · 09/04/2023 20:25

TBH I hadn't given it a thought. It was the only graphically brutal film about Jesus' death that I could think of.

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Sorry, I was thinking of someone else x

Sortyourlifeout · 10/04/2023 09:35

Emotionalsupportviper · 09/04/2023 20:44

This.

And the misconception of a 'sky fairy" - we don't believe that. Or that there is an old man on a cloud who watches us trying to catch us out.

What we (or ay least I) do believe is that there is a greater being -one that can't be described using human words because it is so very different from us. A being more different from ourselves that trying to understand it is like - I dunno - a woodlouse trying to understand and describe the complexities of the human psyche.

This being is benevolent and created all universes and the life in them through an outpouring of sheer love, and that everything is in a delicate balance, but that humanity is very flawed and upset the balance. The great creative force (God) works in us and through us to bring everything back into balance, but does not force the divine influence on us, but works to open our hearts to the injustices around us - injustices affecting all of creation, not just humanity, but every living thing - and wants us to work to put them right.

This divine spirit took on physical form as Jesus Christ - both setting us an example and showing us that the Godself was also prepared to suffer as necessary in solidarity, and wasn't just saying 'Ah - it's not that bad. Just get on with it."

It IS all about love, and community and hope. and fellowship not only with all of humanity, but with all of creation - beautiful, delicately balanced creation which we have knocked out of kilter with our selfishness and greed.

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Put so much more eloquently than I ever could!

You remind me of some of my friends in my Celtic Christianity group ☺️♥️

sewexe · 10/04/2023 09:36

Emotionalsupportviper · 09/04/2023 20:44

This.

And the misconception of a 'sky fairy" - we don't believe that. Or that there is an old man on a cloud who watches us trying to catch us out.

What we (or ay least I) do believe is that there is a greater being -one that can't be described using human words because it is so very different from us. A being more different from ourselves that trying to understand it is like - I dunno - a woodlouse trying to understand and describe the complexities of the human psyche.

This being is benevolent and created all universes and the life in them through an outpouring of sheer love, and that everything is in a delicate balance, but that humanity is very flawed and upset the balance. The great creative force (God) works in us and through us to bring everything back into balance, but does not force the divine influence on us, but works to open our hearts to the injustices around us - injustices affecting all of creation, not just humanity, but every living thing - and wants us to work to put them right.

This divine spirit took on physical form as Jesus Christ - both setting us an example and showing us that the Godself was also prepared to suffer as necessary in solidarity, and wasn't just saying 'Ah - it's not that bad. Just get on with it."

It IS all about love, and community and hope. and fellowship not only with all of humanity, but with all of creation - beautiful, delicately balanced creation which we have knocked out of kilter with our selfishness and greed.

Show quote history

"What we (or ay least I) do believe is that there is a greater being -one that can't be described using human words ..."

Hmm ... isn't "greater" a human word? And don't you use it to describe this "being"? Does that contradict the "can't be described using human words"?

Avoiding contradiction, you might simply say, "What we (or at least I) do believe is that there is a being -one that can't be described using human words ..." That seems not unreasonable; at least it is not impossible that it be true.

However, you then go on to say, "This being is benevolent ..." But, well, again, "benevolent" is a human word, isn't it? And you use it to describe "this being", don't you? Do you see that this contradicts the other part of your belief, "... can't be described ..."

You go on to use more human words to attempt further what you have claimed cannot be done, viz. describe this being.

I'm sure you will be able to understand this. Equally, I am sure it will not shake your faith. Will it nevertheless help you (and others?) to see the unreasonable nature of what you believe? (Perhaps we all believe unreasonable things ...)

...For the topic of the thread: By all means teach children some people believe in indescribable beings, just as others believe in sky fairies and pixies, angels, gods, whatever. But don't then try to describe these indescribable things. And please leave off - I said to my own children's teachers long ago - with all the baby Jesus stuff. (Some people think it's nonsense, you see ...)

If you want to talk about crucifixion, why not human sacrifice? Huitzilopochtli was a good god for that; let's study him ... or Tezcatilpoca ... or, well, lots more.

Teach children about religion, sure. But please don't be so parochial as to focus on just a few local beliefs: let's hear it for Dis (whom Caesar found to be the chief god of the Celts); Tarves the bull; Moccos the pig; Epona the mare; Mullo the celestial jack-ass ... Zoroaster (one of my particular favourites) ... and so on and so on.

[Some readers will spot I am channelling H.L. Mencken here. If you want a fuller list of gods to teach children about, check out his Memorial Service, (first printed in the Smart Set, March, 1922, pp. 41–42); search for Mencken's 'Chrestomathy'.]