Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

The Family Court Scandal and Abuse

264 replies

SpringMum30 · 08/04/2023 19:37

Wasn't sure what to post this under:

Women who are victims of domestic abuse are made by authorities to leave their abusers or risk losing their children.

Women who are victims of domestic abuse are made by the family courts to coparent with their abusers or risk losing their children.

The family court system is not fit for purpose. Women are re traumatised during proceedings whereby they are forced to face their abuser, are further gaslit by Cafcass and magistrates and forced to push their children into unsafe contact arrangements.

The court want to handle cases as quickly as possible and women are criticised for raising allegations of abuse as this prolongs the court process.

The abuser uses the court to further their abuse through the children and is not held accountable for their harmful and abusive behaviour.

If you can relate to this then I am sorry. The trauma experienced can trigger ptsd, anxiety and depression to name a few. I don’t know how to change the system but in raising awareness and talking about it I hope it’s a move in the right direction for real change.

OP posts:
Minimalme · 08/04/2023 22:02

It makes me angry and sad that children are expected to grow up having contact with an abusive parent.

And are not listened to.

The abusive parent's rights seem to trump those of a child. In no other situation would this be ok.

Why are children safeguarded in every other situation other than their own home?

SweetSakura · 08/04/2023 22:12

And the irony is, in many cases ,.if we stayed.with the abuser we would risk losing our children for the very same behaviour, from the very same person, that cafcass tell us is "just different parenting styles" .

And as we support our children when they disclose abuse, we tread a perilous line because on the one hand we obviously don't want to gaslight them and deny what they are suffering, but on the other hand actively being supportive or teasing out disclosures will lead to accusations of parental alienation and we could lose our children. So we wade through a nightmare.

And all that after lots of well meaning organisations and institutions helped us "escape".

My evidence was enough to get a non mol. Enough to have been offered a place in a refuge. But not enough to keep my tiny children free free from abuse.

Original poster
SpringMum30 · 08/04/2023 22:14

Minimalme · 08/04/2023 22:02

It makes me angry and sad that children are expected to grow up having contact with an abusive parent.

And are not listened to.

The abusive parent's rights seem to trump those of a child. In no other situation would this be ok.

Why are children safeguarded in every other situation other than their own home?

So so true! I desperately tried to articulate this in court but was criticised for 'waffling'

OP posts:
Original poster
SpringMum30 · 08/04/2023 22:16

SweetSakura · 08/04/2023 22:12

And the irony is, in many cases ,.if we stayed.with the abuser we would risk losing our children for the very same behaviour, from the very same person, that cafcass tell us is "just different parenting styles" .

And as we support our children when they disclose abuse, we tread a perilous line because on the one hand we obviously don't want to gaslight them and deny what they are suffering, but on the other hand actively being supportive or teasing out disclosures will lead to accusations of parental alienation and we could lose our children. So we wade through a nightmare.

And all that after lots of well meaning organisations and institutions helped us "escape".

My evidence was enough to get a non mol. Enough to have been offered a place in a refuge. But not enough to keep my tiny children free free from abuse.

'Different parenting styles' wow do they all just say the same thing? This term literally horrified me. So dismissive

OP posts:
AutisticLegoLover · 08/04/2023 22:24

Ah yes, the different parenting styles line. Cafcass/SS handbook 101.

Bepis · 08/04/2023 22:26

I hate the different parenting styles line.

DSS mum and step dad would film him on camera getting changed in his bedroom but this was just classed as 'different parenting styles'

Original poster
SpringMum30 · 08/04/2023 22:27

Bepis · 08/04/2023 22:26

I hate the different parenting styles line.

DSS mum and step dad would film him on camera getting changed in his bedroom but this was just classed as 'different parenting styles'

Sick. My ex would force the kids to eat to the point they vomit but sure different parenting style. Too right. Abusive parenting style!

OP posts:
Original poster
SpringMum30 · 08/04/2023 22:28

AutisticLegoLover · 08/04/2023 22:24

Ah yes, the different parenting styles line. Cafcass/SS handbook 101.

This is news to me they truly do sing from the same hymn sheet argh

OP posts:
SweetSakura · 08/04/2023 22:34

AutisticLegoLover · 08/04/2023 22:24

Ah yes, the different parenting styles line. Cafcass/SS handbook 101.

Yes. Even when it related to (in my friends case). behaviour that was a huge red flag for sexual abuse

Reugny · 08/04/2023 22:51

@SweetSakura the poster @Polik is not disagreeing with to you

Oh @Polik myself and DP are thankful for people like you.

Unfortunately as some of the judiciary and magistrates should be a shamed of their ignorance and shouldn't put words in people's mouths.

maddening · 08/04/2023 23:03

Polik · 08/04/2023 20:16

I (school safeguarding) deal with more cases of parents trying to restrict their ex access to their children by falsely claiming abuse, than families facing actual ongoing risk of abuse.

When I say more, it's trebel, quadruple type amounts. Not just a few more.

Herein is the problem.

How have you judged and determined who is lying in these cases?

TheVanguardSix · 08/04/2023 23:53

How do i know the most claims against ex's are false? Because I speak to the child.

To an abused child, you’re just some strange official wearing a lanyard, sitting in a white room covered with industrial carpet tile flooring. You’re another adult not to trust. Why would they tell you the truth? You’re not gonna save them. They know this. You’re just the person writing notes, putting together a file on them, observing them, studying them. They’re your project among too many others. You’re not taking them to the sunlit uplands, away from the abuse. If they can’t tell people they love and trust about their suffering, what makes you think they’d tell you about their suffering? Why should they trust you?

When a child is abused, they too are trained. Trained to shut up.

My daughter’s abuser was a DSL. Very well trained. Trained to speak to the child. Excellent at deceiving everybody. My advice to you is, hear us mothers. Listen to us. Don’t laugh at us and turn away. Our intuition so fucking strong, our own breasts can leak milk when even a stranger’s baby cries. That’s how fucking in tune with shit we are. There’s no training manual to tell you that.

AutisticLegoLover · 09/04/2023 00:02

My dc just used to say what's the point of talking to someone else, they never do anything to help

Bepis · 09/04/2023 00:07

AutisticLegoLover · 09/04/2023 00:02

My dc just used to say what's the point of talking to someone else, they never do anything to help

This is the problem we had. DSS would tell us something concerning and then keep saying it on multiple occasions. When we did tell people, they would go and speak to him at school but by that point, he had already been told off by his mum for telling us things and then he would completely change his story to social workers. Then it would look like we were lying, which we were accused of. I figured that DSS thought it wasn't worth the wrath of his mum and no one would do anything anyway, as has always been the case.

AutisticLegoLover · 09/04/2023 00:19

My dc have spoken to many social workers, and 2 cafcass people. Early help, primary jigsaw, clinical psychologist. Not one of those people advocated for their safety. Only for the rights of their father to continue to have contact t with them. The latest incident where he physically abused dd1 and this was reported to the police and the LADO was involved and whatever, was later listed by the assigned social worker as a "challenge." A fucking challenge. No one had the presence of mind to wonder why Dd changed her story about that incident and most of the other ones. They just decided it wasn't that bad and she was behaving in a challenging way so it was reasonable for him to assault her. DD's attendance is 60% in year 11. She is going to fail most of her GCSEs when she is capable of mainly Bs. I'm powerless. She lives with him and they do nothing to help. Why is he not held to account for her attendance? Her uniform is filthy, it smells, she smells. Obvious neglect but they do nothing. Dd is now fully aligned with her abuser and has been alienated from me. I can only hope once she's at college or leaves home that she will come out of the fog that he's enveloped her in, enabled by cafcass, social services and the courts. I hope they all burn in hell.

SunUp · 09/04/2023 00:38

I think one of the biggest problems that people who have suffered dv face when it comes to family courts is the attitude towards it.
As in.......
' well why didn't you leave? '
' it can't have been that bad because you stayed '
' why didn't you report him to the police? '
Etc.
Because clearly it's so easy to do the above things when you're emotionally broken and skint!!!
These attitudes need addressing and changing, because until they do them I can't see how the issues are ever going to be resolved in favour of the children.
I can guarantee that most, if not all of these judges and magistrates have never been in the position of the petitioner to have any understanding of the situations that they're passing judgement on.
If they have then they wouldn't make half of the ridiculous and often dangerous orders.

maddening · 09/04/2023 01:00

TheVanguardSix · 08/04/2023 23:53

How do i know the most claims against ex's are false? Because I speak to the child.

To an abused child, you’re just some strange official wearing a lanyard, sitting in a white room covered with industrial carpet tile flooring. You’re another adult not to trust. Why would they tell you the truth? You’re not gonna save them. They know this. You’re just the person writing notes, putting together a file on them, observing them, studying them. They’re your project among too many others. You’re not taking them to the sunlit uplands, away from the abuse. If they can’t tell people they love and trust about their suffering, what makes you think they’d tell you about their suffering? Why should they trust you?

When a child is abused, they too are trained. Trained to shut up.

My daughter’s abuser was a DSL. Very well trained. Trained to speak to the child. Excellent at deceiving everybody. My advice to you is, hear us mothers. Listen to us. Don’t laugh at us and turn away. Our intuition so fucking strong, our own breasts can leak milk when even a stranger’s baby cries. That’s how fucking in tune with shit we are. There’s no training manual to tell you that.

I agree, and a safeguarding lead at a school is hardly a clinical or forensic psychologist - they may have some training but it is unlikely to be to a level to really determine the truth.

Bepis · 09/04/2023 01:01

@maddening Sadly, even a clinical psychologist could not see through the manipulation in my husbands case and painted him to be the abuser even though the evidence showed otherwise.

maddening · 09/04/2023 01:03

Bepis · 09/04/2023 01:01

@maddening Sadly, even a clinical psychologist could not see through the manipulation in my husbands case and painted him to be the abuser even though the evidence showed otherwise.

Exactly- therefore a safe guarding lead at a school really should understand their own limitations before stating facts with such confidence in their own ability.

Original poster
SpringMum30 · 09/04/2023 01:14

TheVanguardSix · 08/04/2023 23:53

How do i know the most claims against ex's are false? Because I speak to the child.

To an abused child, you’re just some strange official wearing a lanyard, sitting in a white room covered with industrial carpet tile flooring. You’re another adult not to trust. Why would they tell you the truth? You’re not gonna save them. They know this. You’re just the person writing notes, putting together a file on them, observing them, studying them. They’re your project among too many others. You’re not taking them to the sunlit uplands, away from the abuse. If they can’t tell people they love and trust about their suffering, what makes you think they’d tell you about their suffering? Why should they trust you?

When a child is abused, they too are trained. Trained to shut up.

My daughter’s abuser was a DSL. Very well trained. Trained to speak to the child. Excellent at deceiving everybody. My advice to you is, hear us mothers. Listen to us. Don’t laugh at us and turn away. Our intuition so fucking strong, our own breasts can leak milk when even a stranger’s baby cries. That’s how fucking in tune with shit we are. There’s no training manual to tell you that.

Thank you 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 we grew those babies, gave birth to them and raised them. Yet a stranger who has known them for 5 minutes apparently knows best. Insanity!

OP posts:
Original poster
SpringMum30 · 09/04/2023 01:18

SunUp · 09/04/2023 00:38

I think one of the biggest problems that people who have suffered dv face when it comes to family courts is the attitude towards it.
As in.......
' well why didn't you leave? '
' it can't have been that bad because you stayed '
' why didn't you report him to the police? '
Etc.
Because clearly it's so easy to do the above things when you're emotionally broken and skint!!!
These attitudes need addressing and changing, because until they do them I can't see how the issues are ever going to be resolved in favour of the children.
I can guarantee that most, if not all of these judges and magistrates have never been in the position of the petitioner to have any understanding of the situations that they're passing judgement on.
If they have then they wouldn't make half of the ridiculous and often dangerous orders.

Yep. They also said why did you allow any contact if you had concerns, when equally I was told by withholding contact I was emotionally manipulative and accused of parental alienation. We cannot win in these circumstances

OP posts:
Original poster
SpringMum30 · 09/04/2023 01:19

AutisticLegoLover · 09/04/2023 00:02

My dc just used to say what's the point of talking to someone else, they never do anything to help

My daughter has said this too and it's sad

OP posts:
snitzelvoncrumb · 09/04/2023 01:24

I am waiting for people who were forced to see abusive fathers as children start a class action lawsuit against the courts.

LifeLoatheItOrIgnoreItYouCantLikeIt · 09/04/2023 02:12

That would be nice. The prevailing view in the courts is that parental contact is vital no matter how shit the parent. But why? What evidence is there for this?

LifeLoatheItOrIgnoreItYouCantLikeIt · 09/04/2023 02:13

snitzelvoncrumb · 09/04/2023 01:24

I am waiting for people who were forced to see abusive fathers as children start a class action lawsuit against the courts.

Sorry, meant to quote this