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Original poster

The Family Court Scandal and Abuse

264 replies

SpringMum30 · 08/04/2023 19:37

Wasn't sure what to post this under:

Women who are victims of domestic abuse are made by authorities to leave their abusers or risk losing their children.

Women who are victims of domestic abuse are made by the family courts to coparent with their abusers or risk losing their children.

The family court system is not fit for purpose. Women are re traumatised during proceedings whereby they are forced to face their abuser, are further gaslit by Cafcass and magistrates and forced to push their children into unsafe contact arrangements.

The court want to handle cases as quickly as possible and women are criticised for raising allegations of abuse as this prolongs the court process.

The abuser uses the court to further their abuse through the children and is not held accountable for their harmful and abusive behaviour.

If you can relate to this then I am sorry. The trauma experienced can trigger ptsd, anxiety and depression to name a few. I don’t know how to change the system but in raising awareness and talking about it I hope it’s a move in the right direction for real change.

OP posts:
Thatbloomindog · 08/04/2023 21:20

I hear you op. If I was ever in a Situation you describe, I would be very reluctant to seek help for domestic abuse, in case social services advised me that I had to leave the relationship or have the DC taken away.
because you can leave and be in a refuse. And have an injunction and a non molestation order etc etc and still the family courts would force access with the father. Which then leaves the DC extremely vulnerable. The family courts are hell bent on access to fathers no matter what.
People criticise women for not leaving. But I know very few success stories where women have left and been allowed to keep their children safe.

true story here. Father sexually abused older sibling. Was convicted and given a short prison sentence. On release he took mother to court for access to the two girls. Although he didn’t get access to the older one. He was granted access to the younger one, supervised by his own mum!!! Who never believed he was guilty even after his conviction. So didn’t supervise properly. This was on the grounds that he hadn’t molested the younger one. Only the older one. So it was safe apparently. She didn’t want to go obviously. It’s was extremely traumatic. The mum tried and tried to stop it and was accused by the family court judge of parental alienation etc.
the older sibling has recovered fairly well. The younger one struggles with anorexia and alcohol abuse and the poor poor mother is just a shell.
This is the reality of the family courts. Women thinking of leaving an abuse relationship are told they is support and help. But there isn’t . But if you have kids. This is why so many women choose to stay and try and manage the situation themselves.

Original poster
SpringMum30 · 08/04/2023 21:20

TheVanguardSix · 08/04/2023 21:01

OP… hear fucking hear! 👏I lived out your perfect description of family court 18 years ago with DC1 and now again, these past 18 months with DCs 2 and 3 (ex number 2…stopping with the whole marriage experience after this shitshow).

Let me tell you what happened one year ago when I went to remove PR from my ex (who is serving a prison sentence for sexually abusing my daughter starting when she was 3 years old): Not only did the judge mock me, he wanted to slap a PSO on me, confiscate my passport, and referred to me as a ‘flight risk’. The removal of PR was absolutely not going to happen. Never mind that I’ve lived in the UK for 25 years, own my home, and have children in school and uni here. I’m just going to ‘flee’. I’d have every right to, if I’m honest. But I was never going to abscond with my children.
I said to the judge, ‘If I were planning on fleeing with my kids, I wouldn’t be here in front of you. I wouldn’t bother appealing to the court for help. I wouldn’t pay a fine fee applying to the court for permission to remove PR from a sexual abuser.’

It took me one year and a female judge to remove PR from my daughter’s abuser. I’m left traumatised by the whole experience. I still have the divorce to finish, which has been awful.

Having dealt with police, judges, lawyers all I can say is, this is no country for women and children. The investigating officer on our child abuse case was absolutely misogynistic to the core. I’m not sure what’s worse, the abuse my daughter suffered or the quest for ‘justice’. Justice… it’s a loose term. You lose so much of yourself, it costs you so much spiritually and emotionally, just to fucking claw to your children’s rights and your protection of them.

I relate to this so much and feel empowered having these conversations because I walked out of our final hearing absolutely flawed. I was so distraught I couldn't find the strength to even cry. The trauma and emotional turmoil is horrific and yet we still have to try and find the strength to raise our children often alone. If it wasn't for my faith and support network I think I would be floored.

OP posts:
Original poster
SpringMum30 · 08/04/2023 21:21

Nat6999 · 08/04/2023 21:04

I was made by Caffcass to sit in a room next to the man who raped me, I also had to hand ds over to him for contact. This was the man who had tried to burn down the house with me & ds in it, if ds hadn't learned to ring 999 in school I don't know what would have happened.

I'm so sorry for your experience how is this even allowed to happen?! 😩

OP posts:
Polik · 08/04/2023 21:22

I'm not here on this thread for a battle. I thought my perspective on the title statement might be useful. Quite happy to step back from the thread if those participating only want to hear voices who agree. No skin off my nose.

QueenoftheNimbleFlyingCat - I'm not a counsellor. I'm a DSL. Different type of training.

AutisticLegoLover children don't have to articulate harm directly. It's helpful if they can but often they cant/dont. Even without a direct disclosure DSLs have a responsibility to notice patterns, changes in behaviour or put together lots of low level indicators when considering risk of harm.

Bepis · 08/04/2023 21:23

I just want to give everyone a virtual hug for what you have all been through 💐. Some of these experiences are awful.

SweetSakura · 08/04/2023 21:24

Polik · 08/04/2023 21:06

How do you know the claims are false? How can you know? You do know abuse isn't just physical, don't you?

I'm a DSL, my full time job is knowing and spotting types of abuse and harm.

How do i know the most claims against ex's are false? Because I speak to the child.

One in the week before we broke up involved Mum escalating from school to MASH to police, in a desperate attempt to move 15yo away from resident father. Mum started pushing school to make a MASH referral, claiming emotional abuse in Dads home. I spoke repeatedly to the child who gave zero indication of this in discussions. Mum then made a MASH referral herself. Social care spoke to child and closed. She then went to police. They spoke to child and took no action. Then MASH again, this time claiming threats of violence and alcohol use ftom Dad, as well as emotional abuse. Again no disclosure from child - but in this case I (school DSL) pushed social care for an assessment with concerns of mum's emotional abuse. They assessed, talked at length to child, as did I - still no signs, suggestions or disclosure from the child of harm from Dad - so social care closed. This child is telling me eloquently and directly that her relationship with Dad is just normal teen-parent relationship. But mum continually insists that Dad occasionally telling her off, Dad insisting she washes the pots, or Dad having a couple pints on a weekend (child is 15) is emotional abuse. Like anything other than Perfect Parent (which doesnt exist) is labelled abuse and Ex considers that de-facto that they should have custody.

This is just one of dozens I deal with week in - week out.

I'm a grown adult with children of my own and I spent the first year of therapy eloquently and directly assuring my excellent and highly skilled therapist that my mum was wonderful before I finally cracked and admitted how abusive she was.

I think I was trying to protect her.

You need to check your bias. Urgently.

Original poster
SpringMum30 · 08/04/2023 21:25

Bizzieizz · 08/04/2023 21:06

I am a victim of domestic abuse, my children have been victims of domestic abuse.
I have stood in court for two years and not swayed from this once.
We spent years with me being gaslit, coercively controlled and financially abused.
Now I am divorced I am financially controlled via child maintenance and abused through the family courts.
I am frustrated to fuck by the Courts and Cafcass.

The last thing I would have needed was a member of staff at the kids school deciding that with no real experience of DV and only minor training on it, that I must be lying because the kids don’t quite back up what I say.

As an aside, I was raped one night by my exh. The children were in bed. Does the fact they didn’t see it and couldn’t have verified it mean it didn’t happen??? 🤔

Child maintenance is another common tactic! My ex said he owns his own company but doesn't have to pay maintenance because he pays himself a low salary and takes dividends. No one batted an eyelid! I'm sorry for your experiences of abuse x

OP posts:
poormanspombears · 08/04/2023 21:28

@Polik

I get what you're saying. As an ADSL I'm constantly building a timeline and I feel like my brain is wired to think in a rational and logical logical but also 'worst case scenario' train of thought at all times. Working with teens, I feel like I'm in a state of constant hyper vigilance.

I work in a school that has a very lax attitude to reporting concerns. In a school of nearly 900, I have seen days where nothing is reported at all which, given our cohort, is not likely to be correct.

My old school was brilliant and encouraged reporting everything from poor hygiene or lack of sleep to actual disclosure because it is all contributory IF the worst were to happen.

QueenoftheNimbleFlyingCat · 08/04/2023 21:29

Polik · 08/04/2023 21:22

I'm not here on this thread for a battle. I thought my perspective on the title statement might be useful. Quite happy to step back from the thread if those participating only want to hear voices who agree. No skin off my nose.

QueenoftheNimbleFlyingCat - I'm not a counsellor. I'm a DSL. Different type of training.

AutisticLegoLover children don't have to articulate harm directly. It's helpful if they can but often they cant/dont. Even without a direct disclosure DSLs have a responsibility to notice patterns, changes in behaviour or put together lots of low level indicators when considering risk of harm.

I realise that they are different things and training but therefore how do you know how to get the disclosures from traumatised and vulnerable young people? You are making assumptions about patterns etc and are using these to indicate mothers are lying about abuse because the child doesn't tell you?

Original poster
SpringMum30 · 08/04/2023 21:33

Thatbloomindog · 08/04/2023 21:20

I hear you op. If I was ever in a Situation you describe, I would be very reluctant to seek help for domestic abuse, in case social services advised me that I had to leave the relationship or have the DC taken away.
because you can leave and be in a refuse. And have an injunction and a non molestation order etc etc and still the family courts would force access with the father. Which then leaves the DC extremely vulnerable. The family courts are hell bent on access to fathers no matter what.
People criticise women for not leaving. But I know very few success stories where women have left and been allowed to keep their children safe.

true story here. Father sexually abused older sibling. Was convicted and given a short prison sentence. On release he took mother to court for access to the two girls. Although he didn’t get access to the older one. He was granted access to the younger one, supervised by his own mum!!! Who never believed he was guilty even after his conviction. So didn’t supervise properly. This was on the grounds that he hadn’t molested the younger one. Only the older one. So it was safe apparently. She didn’t want to go obviously. It’s was extremely traumatic. The mum tried and tried to stop it and was accused by the family court judge of parental alienation etc.
the older sibling has recovered fairly well. The younger one struggles with anorexia and alcohol abuse and the poor poor mother is just a shell.
This is the reality of the family courts. Women thinking of leaving an abuse relationship are told they is support and help. But there isn’t . But if you have kids. This is why so many women choose to stay and try and manage the situation themselves.

This all sounds so familiar to experiences other women have articulated. I also had non molestation and prohibited steps. Until you leave you have no idea what's to come. I don't regret it but I have managed to have the children the majority of the time (75/25) but still have to share holidays. I don't wasn't to wish my children childhood away but I do look to the future where they are older and he will no longer be able to use the courts to gain control

OP posts:
Original poster
SpringMum30 · 08/04/2023 21:34

Bepis · 08/04/2023 21:23

I just want to give everyone a virtual hug for what you have all been through 💐. Some of these experiences are awful.

❤️❤️

OP posts:
TitaniumTess · 08/04/2023 21:36

This is me too. @SpringMum30 you are spot on.

Even with loads of evidence, police pass to social services, who pass to school...it all dissolves.

My ex was awful. I went to counselling. Just as I was getting stronger, he has used court as post-separation abuse. Horrible man. I feel let down by the whole system.

I understand why women don't leave as the support network that's meant to work doesn't work. Feels like the abuse is inescapable. Hugs to everyone going through this nightmare.

strawberryseed · 08/04/2023 21:38

Agree. I was very lucky, I still came away with ptsd. Very happy for this to be in my past and recovering with many years of therapy. The system in broken.

JustAnotherManicNameChange · 08/04/2023 21:39

Polik · 08/04/2023 21:22

I'm not here on this thread for a battle. I thought my perspective on the title statement might be useful. Quite happy to step back from the thread if those participating only want to hear voices who agree. No skin off my nose.

QueenoftheNimbleFlyingCat - I'm not a counsellor. I'm a DSL. Different type of training.

AutisticLegoLover children don't have to articulate harm directly. It's helpful if they can but often they cant/dont. Even without a direct disclosure DSLs have a responsibility to notice patterns, changes in behaviour or put together lots of low level indicators when considering risk of harm.

To be fair to you I don't know if our experiences differ due to age. It sounds like you're secondary, when it's more likely that separation is not necessarily recent, and there already is a pattern of contact , relationships reestablished etc.

Out of curiosity are the majority of cases where you think/know the mum is lying recent separations?

CheesecakeAddict · 08/04/2023 21:45

Yup yup and yup.

ExH threw DD on the floor (actually threw her) when she was about 12 months old because he didn't like her crying. SS ordered me to observe all contact in HIS home, during which he physically and assaulted and raped me (in front of DD). Family court ruled to protect the status quo I.e. continue this arrangement indefinitely. It was altered when she was 18months to unsupervised contact but she's not safe. Most recently he threw a chair at DD in a fit of rage but SS decided not to pursue it because in the 5 days it had taken them to investigate, DD didn't mention it at school. I am not allowed to break the court order, and DD cries and hides when she has to go to her dad's and tells everyone she hates him.

Magnoliainbloom · 08/04/2023 21:46

I’m so sorry for you have been through. If anyone needs a barrister, Dr Charlotte Proudman is doing great work to reform how women are treated in the family courts. I haven’t used her, but was incredibly impressed when I saw her on a Channel 4 documentary about the family courts.

https://www.goldsmithchambers.com/barristers/charlotte-proudman/

Barrister: Dr Charlotte Proudman - Goldsmith Chambers

https://www.goldsmithchambers.com/barristers/charlotte-proudman/

CloseRunningRiver · 08/04/2023 21:47

SweetSakura · 08/04/2023 20:32

What gives you such confidence the claims are false? My ex was very charming with school staff and monstrously abusive towards me and my children behind closed doors.

Show quote history

My thoughts exactly. A school staff member, is not better guardian or arbiter of right and wrong than anyone else.
The worst abusers are the most charming, and most people are taken in by this.

Sugarplumfairy65 · 08/04/2023 21:49

Bepis · 08/04/2023 21:17

@Sugarplumfairy65 So they both lied to the court and nothing happened to them? Goodness me!

DHs ex lied to the court on a statement which we could prove but the judge wasn't interested. Essentially giving a green light to lie in court.

Absolutely no consequences for them. 4 years down the line and things are not much better. Court ordered contact every weekend for 1 day to be agreed by mother and father. Mother says child doesn't want to sleep over. Mother makes child available for contact around one in four weekends because she's busy doing activities and going to birthday parties. Sil just doesn't know where to turn. The court has allowed the bitch to do this. All the money did and sil saved for their house deposit has gone on solicitor and court fees

Original poster
SpringMum30 · 08/04/2023 21:49

CheesecakeAddict · 08/04/2023 21:45

Yup yup and yup.

ExH threw DD on the floor (actually threw her) when she was about 12 months old because he didn't like her crying. SS ordered me to observe all contact in HIS home, during which he physically and assaulted and raped me (in front of DD). Family court ruled to protect the status quo I.e. continue this arrangement indefinitely. It was altered when she was 18months to unsupervised contact but she's not safe. Most recently he threw a chair at DD in a fit of rage but SS decided not to pursue it because in the 5 days it had taken them to investigate, DD didn't mention it at school. I am not allowed to break the court order, and DD cries and hides when she has to go to her dad's and tells everyone she hates him.

Criminal and devastating. I'm so sorry for you both. It enrages me that there are so many horrific accounts from so many women. There needs to be real exposure. Sending you love 💕

OP posts:
TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 08/04/2023 21:53

Polik · 08/04/2023 20:42

Which goes back to my point. The vast, vast majority of claims are not backed by the voice of the child or any other outward indications of abuse to the child. Which is likely where the assumption comes from.

The answer is for parents to stop using their children as pawns in their own battle.

Show quote history

What kind of society do we live in where your voice because void once you reach adulthood? What about women of babies who can’t talk - how is it right they’re believed? I’m honestly disgusted that you work in a school with this dismissive attitude.

SweetSakura · 08/04/2023 21:54

Magnoliainbloom · 08/04/2023 21:46

I’m so sorry for you have been through. If anyone needs a barrister, Dr Charlotte Proudman is doing great work to reform how women are treated in the family courts. I haven’t used her, but was incredibly impressed when I saw her on a Channel 4 documentary about the family courts.

https://www.goldsmithchambers.com/barristers/charlotte-proudman/

Charlotte is doing excellent work.

Ashia · 08/04/2023 21:57

Agree. The courts enable the abuser to continue his abuse and in many cases insist on putting the children at risk by forcing them to continue an abusive relationship.

The law is simply wrong on this. Violent abusive men should lose access to their children, it isn’t complicated.

Yazo · 08/04/2023 22:01

I think domestic abuse is more common in cases reaching family court but both ways too. My brother faced awful abuse from his ex, he really was a broken man. It's taken him years to get his life and his health back and he fights for his daughter every day against the most manipulative woman I've ever encountered. My niece has no contact with any of her loving family, my brother can only for the moment see her at a contact centre. The court system fails a lot of people, but it's sad that some people ultimately don't respect that children usually have a mother and a father and want to ignore the other exists.

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 08/04/2023 22:02

Polik · 08/04/2023 21:06

How do you know the claims are false? How can you know? You do know abuse isn't just physical, don't you?

I'm a DSL, my full time job is knowing and spotting types of abuse and harm.

How do i know the most claims against ex's are false? Because I speak to the child.

One in the week before we broke up involved Mum escalating from school to MASH to police, in a desperate attempt to move 15yo away from resident father. Mum started pushing school to make a MASH referral, claiming emotional abuse in Dads home. I spoke repeatedly to the child who gave zero indication of this in discussions. Mum then made a MASH referral herself. Social care spoke to child and closed. She then went to police. They spoke to child and took no action. Then MASH again, this time claiming threats of violence and alcohol use ftom Dad, as well as emotional abuse. Again no disclosure from child - but in this case I (school DSL) pushed social care for an assessment with concerns of mum's emotional abuse. They assessed, talked at length to child, as did I - still no signs, suggestions or disclosure from the child of harm from Dad - so social care closed. This child is telling me eloquently and directly that her relationship with Dad is just normal teen-parent relationship. But mum continually insists that Dad occasionally telling her off, Dad insisting she washes the pots, or Dad having a couple pints on a weekend (child is 15) is emotional abuse. Like anything other than Perfect Parent (which doesnt exist) is labelled abuse and Ex considers that de-facto that they should have custody.

This is just one of dozens I deal with week in - week out.

And here ladies and gentlemen is why it’s so hard for women to escape a sue. Apologists who believe men and don’t think the voices of women are valid.

You should quit your job immediately, you are a danger to children