What is wrong with these people?

[Bobblemymind]

Apologies for Daily Fail link. These landlords are fighting to keep their collection of extremely racist dolls on display. What possible justification could someone have for having a golliwog on display in this day and age? There is no ambiguity here, golliwogs are vile.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11949421/Moment-six-police-officers-raid-Essex-pub-seize-15-golliwog-dolls.html

I would also add that they knew exactly what they were doing.

Incidentally-I was a child in the 1960s. My mother was born in 1920. She certainly knew that gollywogs are racist and taught me accordingly.

Where is your line? Virtually everything you see is a caricature of something. South Park was a ginger Prince representing Harry; Spitting Image of the whole royal family; Barbie is an anorexic, gold-digging, ditsy, offensive representation of white girls, only recently have they expanded into more PC versions of business Barbie or Doctor Barbie.

Aren't all fertility statues that have been around for millennia caricatures of pregnant women?

Explain how a pile of dolls 'hurts' anyone.

I was a toddler in the 1950s. Years ago I was looking through some old photos of myself as a toddler. The was one with me holding an enormous golly. It was beautifully made and obviously had been quite expensive. But I had no memory of it.

I remembered most of my toys because I used to play schools with them and this didn't figure in those memories.

Mum explained that it was a hugely expensive present from a person Dad had been able to help out. So she took my photo with it to show to the donor then got rid of it. It was racist even then, most people knew that.

On the other hand I had a much loved black "Roddy doll" but that's another thread.

What about that post made you think that I considered displaying those things to be "fine"?

If you need this explaining then you're probably beyond help, to be honest.

Suggest you go and make a nice cup and tea and have a sit down. Then have a word with yourself.

I would bet my house on the fact that those pubs owners are racist as fuck.

@Lennybenny I am sorry for your awful experience.

My mum bought me a trendily dressed black Pippa doll (along with a white Pippa doll) in the early 1970s.
She would never have allowed a golly in the house though. Two completely different things.

Oh God, that shop! I clocked that fucking display and ushered my lot straight back out. Absolute pricks.

Another thread where no one, no one at all in the whole wide world likes what they call the ‘Daily fail’. Yet it’s the only paper from which links are ever posted and everyone on MN seems to know what is being published in it.

Why such pathetic attempts to prove that you don’t read the most widely read paper in Britain?

So your argument is that because, as you've quite rightly pointed out, Barbie has been for most of the toy's history a highly misogynistic and regressive representation of a teenage girl that that makes a pile of dolls that are a racist caricature of black people okay?

Not a very strong argument really.

The difference between Barbie and gollywogs is that it is possible to change Barbie to be a more genuine and positive representation of young girls (to an extent). How would you propose to update gollywogs to make them less offensive?

I was born mid 60's.

I remember them as a toy and the Robinson ones and I honestly did not think they were people, I thought they were a mythical creature like a fairy or a gnome.

But I also didn't understand the black and white minstrels, it just seemed silly to me.

Obviously I know better now and I am not sure how I feel about people keeping them. The doll not the minstrels.

Although I do think something you keep in your bedroom that was your childhood toy is one thing and having a public display is another.

"The dolls went quietly. They didn't resist arrest".

Sleek and smooth for a racist.

"People of different cultures come in here. We're not racist, we do Indian weddings".

Yes because all minorities are the same, Indian is another word for black and some ethnic minorities aren't also anti-black.

If they weren't offensive and racist why do people now call them gollys?

They are offensive. No reason to have them on public display.

“I feel similarly uncomfortable about restrictions on what's often described as hateful speech or conduct.”

And more.

"I feel uncomfortable about hate speech legislation restricting what opinions are legally allowed to be expressed" ≠ "This is all fine 👍"

There are many things I disagree with, find repulsive, find abhorrent, think nobody should do, think are wrong, etc., which I nevertheless do not think should be illegal.

As I repeatedly said, if the argument is that displaying these things in a pub is, in effect, discriminating in provision of goods and services (perhaps by making black people feel unwelcome or unsafe), or that it constitutes a breach of the peace, or some other infraction, then that's a different matter, and should be dealt with under those frameworks, but I would be unhappy about having a system where people are just not permitted to have or express certain views, even those views I disagree with (within the usual limits about things like incitement, or libel, or other standard free-speech restrictions that exist in most liberal democracies).

Do you really struggle with the concept that somebody can want to live in a liberal, pluralistic democracy with freedom of speech, where others are legally permitted to have opinions they disagree with and consider wrong, disgusting or abhorrent? Is it that hard for you to understand that being against state-sponsored regulation of opinion and state-imposed punishment for "incorrect" views is an entirely different thing from agreeing with whatever opinion is under discussion?

It's hollow to defend free speech only when you agree with the speaker.

Abso-fucking-lutley. Older people, particularly those inclined to read the DM, are by far the biggest snowflakes on the planet. The DM has been involved in more attempts to 'cancel' opinions they don't like than every other media platform and social movement combined.

It's maddening that the people who come out with shite like "oh a gollywog is just a doll" are the same people who go into absolute meltdown over things like the 'Anyone but England' sentiment at major sporting events (especially as they do it without a hint of irony).

@JarByTheDoor and yet you avoided answering if it’s ok for the pub to display Nazi memorabilia.

It’s hollow to defend freedom to display golliwogs yet object to Nazi memorabilia.

I didn't avoid it, I just didn't answer, because it was much more important to me to address that sneaky "also", a sly little trick of wording to slide in an insinuation that I think it's fine to display golliwogs in a pub. I don't think it's fine. I've made it extremely clear that I don't think it's fine. Why should I answer questions from someone who feels it's acceptable to misrepresent me in this way?

My last sentence that says not all older people. Hard to explain that. I mean, I’m literally saying not all older people.

The 1960s long-running BBC Children's TV programme 'Play School' had a 'Golly' as one of the soft toys. The programme ran for decades (1964-1988) so I wonder when they got rid of the 'golly'.
I remember the Robertson's 1960s jam campaign - my Grandma used to collect them for me. There were badges and also ornaments to collect. It was a time when the Black and White Minstrels was a Saturday evening 6pm slot tv show.
My father used to let me read Enid Blyton books but did say she was a bit racist (he was a lefty).
I didn't give my own children any 'golly' toys and I find the Dutch 'Sinterklaas black face' phenomenon which still happens in the Netherlands rather distasteful but I don't think there was necessarily any real malice intended in any of these things. I do get that it is not for me to say whether it caused other people offence.

Well that is interesting. The Wikipedia page for Play School makes no mention of 'golly' among the toys. It really is not appropriate to suppress history like this.

Play school never had a golly soft toy? They replaced one of the dolls with a black doll in the 80s.