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Original poster

DSD doesn’t want to go to Russia (I don’t blame her)

281 replies

CatherineEarnshawsGhost · 06/04/2023 16:26

Hello,

Just wanted to see what others think about this situation.

DSD (11) has three passports - A European one from her dad (not British, an EU), an Australian one and a Russian one. My DH’s exW is Russian and is planning a trip to visit family in the Urals during the Summer holidays. DSD’s mum is now in the process of renewing their Russian passports as I guess they have both lapsed.

I suppose it’ll be a bit of a rigmarole to get there as they’ll have to fly via Turkey to get to Moscow. When they do get there I think they’d have to rely on cash (Rubles) as western bank cards won’t work and their British phones will probably have to be switched off in advance because when the Russian phone company detects a UK phone number on their network they are likely to become highly suspicious and track that phone (I work in telecoms, this isn’t unfounded paranoia they can do this so probably will).

Now that DSD is aware of the plan she’s voicing the fact that she’s feeling a bit nervous at the prospect of going. Honestly I don’t blame her. DH is also quite worried and would rather they don’t risk it, but doesn’t want to stop his DD from seeing her GPs and GGM who is 89 (I think). Overall DH wants what’s best for his DD so that would probably mean not going to a hostile country which is currently at odds with the west. He’s just needs to diplomatically approach his exW for the best outcome (no idea how he does that so I’ll leave it to him).

AIBU for being a bit nervous about seeing DSD go off to Russia?

Anyone else experienced this (unlikely but just checking)

Thanks!

OP posts:
Ashia · 08/04/2023 21:52

No way would I let her go.

As she has EU nationality, Russia could easily decide to use her as a political pawn and find some pretext to take her into ‘care’. Look at what happened to Whelan, to Griner, etc.

Europe is very close to being at war with Russia. Going into enemy territory is stupid.

SinnerBoy · 09/04/2023 02:19

Britney Griner decide to smuggle cannabis oil into Russia, because she knew she couldn't get it there. Because she knew it was illegal.

RedToothBrush · 09/04/2023 10:40

CatherineEarnshawsGhost · 08/04/2023 21:30

Yes exactly. I believe she’s pretty much confined to her bed these days so she gets by from support from either a healthcare professional (whatever the Russian equivalent would be) and/or family.

cheers

Show quote history

If she is that ill, is it wise / worthwhile sending an eleven year old to see her in addition to the circumstances?

It's not going to be a fun trip by any stretch of the imagination. Emotionally it will be a lot for a child of that age who is old enough to understand the political situation without the added distress of seeing a relative she doesn't know well in that state.

It's one thing to do it in normal circumstances but in this??

NinaNivarova · 09/04/2023 12:37

I live in Russia. And now I'm temporarily staying with my friends in Glasgow. I want to tell you that most of those who have left comments here have a completely wrong idea about Russia. When I arrived here, my husband also told me that I would be used here as the Skripals. But no one pays attention to me here. Also in Russia. No one will use you as a pawn in a political game, everything is calm and good there, no one is stopped by the police on the streets - all this is nonsense, sorry, presented to you by your media. And if you speak a foreign language, ordinary people will just want to chat with you. Yes, you will have to buy with cash, as I had to when I was driving here. But this is the only disadvantage of your trip. Look, there are quite a lot of videos on YouTube made by Americans, Englishmen who came to Russia, they all calmly walk the streets, shoot videos in English and tell stories that everything is fine with us. And Moscow is just great, I travel a lot, but I do not know of any such safe city as Moscow. I am learning English with a teacher from London via Skype. But I also try to listen to other people on YouTube a lot. I know three people from Britain who have YouTube channels. They have been living in Russia for more than three years, when the war with Ukraine began, they went back to Britain, but returned a few months later. If things had been bad for us, they wouldn't have come back.

Panicmode1 · 09/04/2023 13:08

NinaNivarova · 09/04/2023 12:37

I live in Russia. And now I'm temporarily staying with my friends in Glasgow. I want to tell you that most of those who have left comments here have a completely wrong idea about Russia. When I arrived here, my husband also told me that I would be used here as the Skripals. But no one pays attention to me here. Also in Russia. No one will use you as a pawn in a political game, everything is calm and good there, no one is stopped by the police on the streets - all this is nonsense, sorry, presented to you by your media. And if you speak a foreign language, ordinary people will just want to chat with you. Yes, you will have to buy with cash, as I had to when I was driving here. But this is the only disadvantage of your trip. Look, there are quite a lot of videos on YouTube made by Americans, Englishmen who came to Russia, they all calmly walk the streets, shoot videos in English and tell stories that everything is fine with us. And Moscow is just great, I travel a lot, but I do not know of any such safe city as Moscow. I am learning English with a teacher from London via Skype. But I also try to listen to other people on YouTube a lot. I know three people from Britain who have YouTube channels. They have been living in Russia for more than three years, when the war with Ukraine began, they went back to Britain, but returned a few months later. If things had been bad for us, they wouldn't have come back.

That's nice. But Russia is a pariah state - spending currency in the country allows Putin to fund his acts of aggression and to continue to act with impunity. Visiting the country allows him to use foreign nationals for propaganda purposes by suggesting there is nothing to worry about and it's 'business as usual'. For the same reason that I won't holiday in countries in the Middle East with appalling human rights records, I wouldn't currently travel to, or spend time in Russia - and I certainly wouldn't allow a child of mine to go.

When I studied in Russia, I loved the Russians I spent time with - but it is not a benign place and it (as a country) rightly has a poor reputation right now.

Whataretalkingabout · 09/04/2023 14:25

Do not let your DC go to Russia with her M.!

My SIL is Russian , her DC is half Russian half EU citizen. SIL has been wanting to go home with her DC to see family, but doesn't know if they will be able to return to EU afterward. She has canceled her plans several times since the war began.

There is no good reason to take a child into a country at war.

UglyModernWindows · 09/04/2023 14:50

Whatever the politics I wouldn’t travel, let alone take child to a country where the travel insurance is invalid.

JTro · 09/04/2023 17:32

NinaNivarova · 09/04/2023 12:37

I live in Russia. And now I'm temporarily staying with my friends in Glasgow. I want to tell you that most of those who have left comments here have a completely wrong idea about Russia. When I arrived here, my husband also told me that I would be used here as the Skripals. But no one pays attention to me here. Also in Russia. No one will use you as a pawn in a political game, everything is calm and good there, no one is stopped by the police on the streets - all this is nonsense, sorry, presented to you by your media. And if you speak a foreign language, ordinary people will just want to chat with you. Yes, you will have to buy with cash, as I had to when I was driving here. But this is the only disadvantage of your trip. Look, there are quite a lot of videos on YouTube made by Americans, Englishmen who came to Russia, they all calmly walk the streets, shoot videos in English and tell stories that everything is fine with us. And Moscow is just great, I travel a lot, but I do not know of any such safe city as Moscow. I am learning English with a teacher from London via Skype. But I also try to listen to other people on YouTube a lot. I know three people from Britain who have YouTube channels. They have been living in Russia for more than three years, when the war with Ukraine began, they went back to Britain, but returned a few months later. If things had been bad for us, they wouldn't have come back.

It is very hard to change people's mind in here when mass media already messed up their brains. I absolutly agree with you as I had been in Russia with my kids over Christmas peroid. No mattter how many times you (or me) repeat how fine and safe it is to travel/visit Russia (my kids favourite holiday destination and we are holidayin 3-4 times a year) ordinary people here would not understand as Dailymail already had drawn a different picture in their mind.
When I saw the Youtube videos of British/Australians/Americans who currently are staying in Russia I noticed why they are doing it. As one of them said "I want people in my country to see it's not what they think it is, hopefully they'll be successful in that one day

JTro · 09/04/2023 17:40

Panicmode1 · 09/04/2023 13:08

That's nice. But Russia is a pariah state - spending currency in the country allows Putin to fund his acts of aggression and to continue to act with impunity. Visiting the country allows him to use foreign nationals for propaganda purposes by suggesting there is nothing to worry about and it's 'business as usual'. For the same reason that I won't holiday in countries in the Middle East with appalling human rights records, I wouldn't currently travel to, or spend time in Russia - and I certainly wouldn't allow a child of mine to go.

When I studied in Russia, I loved the Russians I spent time with - but it is not a benign place and it (as a country) rightly has a poor reputation right now.

Show quote history

You talk from you point of view when you have no family conection with Russia, just studying there once. OP was talking about DSD who is half Russian and have extended family in there (one of them is not very healthy) who she is very close to.

JTro · 09/04/2023 17:43

UglyModernWindows · 09/04/2023 14:50

Whatever the politics I wouldn’t travel, let alone take child to a country where the travel insurance is invalid.

As OP's DSD is Russian citzen she does not need it, it has been mentioned many times in this thread alreday.

Amispringy · 09/04/2023 17:57

NinaNivarova · 09/04/2023 12:37

I live in Russia. And now I'm temporarily staying with my friends in Glasgow. I want to tell you that most of those who have left comments here have a completely wrong idea about Russia. When I arrived here, my husband also told me that I would be used here as the Skripals. But no one pays attention to me here. Also in Russia. No one will use you as a pawn in a political game, everything is calm and good there, no one is stopped by the police on the streets - all this is nonsense, sorry, presented to you by your media. And if you speak a foreign language, ordinary people will just want to chat with you. Yes, you will have to buy with cash, as I had to when I was driving here. But this is the only disadvantage of your trip. Look, there are quite a lot of videos on YouTube made by Americans, Englishmen who came to Russia, they all calmly walk the streets, shoot videos in English and tell stories that everything is fine with us. And Moscow is just great, I travel a lot, but I do not know of any such safe city as Moscow. I am learning English with a teacher from London via Skype. But I also try to listen to other people on YouTube a lot. I know three people from Britain who have YouTube channels. They have been living in Russia for more than three years, when the war with Ukraine began, they went back to Britain, but returned a few months later. If things had been bad for us, they wouldn't have come back.

Props to your English teacher via Skype

They're phenomenal - or you're just an A1 student

Panicmode1 · 09/04/2023 18:07

@JTro you have conveniently ignored the wider geopolotocal points I made..Putin has been indicted for war crimes. I also find it laughable that you say that we are all brainwashed by our media...when there isn't any freedom of the press in Russia, and dissenters are poisoned/imprisoned/assassinated. (And the Daily Mail is a newspaper with a reputation about as sound as Russia's)

The OP was asking about whether it is a good idea to allow her step daughter to travel. Most people on this thread agree that she is right to be cautious, regardless of whether you, personally, travel there happily or I studied and worked there some years ago. (FWIW, most of the Russians I studied and worked with in the late 90s and early 2000s left Russia once they realised they could not live under a dictatorship.)

Panicmode1 · 09/04/2023 18:09

*geopolitical

Mendholeai · 09/04/2023 18:35

Hard no from me. Why take the risk???

Mendholeai · 09/04/2023 18:38

The Russians I know are getting their cash out and moving-

JTro · 09/04/2023 19:13

Panicmode1 · 09/04/2023 18:07

@JTro you have conveniently ignored the wider geopolotocal points I made..Putin has been indicted for war crimes. I also find it laughable that you say that we are all brainwashed by our media...when there isn't any freedom of the press in Russia, and dissenters are poisoned/imprisoned/assassinated. (And the Daily Mail is a newspaper with a reputation about as sound as Russia's)

The OP was asking about whether it is a good idea to allow her step daughter to travel. Most people on this thread agree that she is right to be cautious, regardless of whether you, personally, travel there happily or I studied and worked there some years ago. (FWIW, most of the Russians I studied and worked with in the late 90s and early 2000s left Russia once they realised they could not live under a dictatorship.)

And you ignoring the fact it's about a girl with Russian heritage. Would OP ask about her British/American/etc DSD, whose mother out of a blue decided to take her daughter for a holiday in Russia, I would probably agree (taking into account how Russia is portrayed in mass media). Will she and her mum go there to overturn Putin? Definitely no. Will she be poisoned/held random there? Of course not! Will she go there to be in oppositon to the regime there? Don't think so. Her mum just mants to take her there to see an elderly relative. How geopolitical points you made relate to the Dsd's family there?

If you are talking about Russia in late90's and early 2000s I understand why you said what you said in your original post. But Russia in 90s and Russia now are two different thing. Completely different. I was one of those who moved out of Russia in early 2000s and that time it was very hard in there. Now it is compleley different picture.

JTro · 09/04/2023 19:14

wants*

JTro · 09/04/2023 19:19

And in 90s and early 2000s people left Russia not because of the dictatorship, but because life was extremely hard, with no job for scientists/engineers/It specialists/doctors etc... or even if it was a possibility of employment the salary was so small you could not last two week on it. Immigration was due economical reasons, not political

JTro · 09/04/2023 19:25

JTro · 09/04/2023 19:19

And in 90s and early 2000s people left Russia not because of the dictatorship, but because life was extremely hard, with no job for scientists/engineers/It specialists/doctors etc... or even if it was a possibility of employment the salary was so small you could not last two week on it. Immigration was due economical reasons, not political

and randsom* autocorrect is annoying sometimes :)

Panicmode1 · 09/04/2023 19:32

@Jtro I'm going to leave this here because I don't think we are going to agree - of course I understand she has Russian heritage (it's been a significant part of the discussion), but it doesn't change the fact that it isn't a wise decision, however safe you assert it is, and most people in the West view Putin and his regime negatively. By travelling to the country, and spending money which has been brought in from outside, one is benefitting Putin's regime; you will say that it's only one person - yet you have repeatedly asserted that you and several friends have travelled happily to and from Russia since the invasion of Ukraine. So multiply that many times, and it's not a benign act to travel to a country where the leader has been indicted for war crimes and acts with impunity on foreign soil. (And whilst there was a 'brain drain' exodus, there were also friends of mine who saw that the political landscape was darkening, and left.) Peace. Out.

JTro · 09/04/2023 19:46

Panicmode1 · 09/04/2023 19:32

@Jtro I'm going to leave this here because I don't think we are going to agree - of course I understand she has Russian heritage (it's been a significant part of the discussion), but it doesn't change the fact that it isn't a wise decision, however safe you assert it is, and most people in the West view Putin and his regime negatively. By travelling to the country, and spending money which has been brought in from outside, one is benefitting Putin's regime; you will say that it's only one person - yet you have repeatedly asserted that you and several friends have travelled happily to and from Russia since the invasion of Ukraine. So multiply that many times, and it's not a benign act to travel to a country where the leader has been indicted for war crimes and acts with impunity on foreign soil. (And whilst there was a 'brain drain' exodus, there were also friends of mine who saw that the political landscape was darkening, and left.) Peace. Out.

Oh, that's showing once again you are talking with position of a person who has zero connection with Russia. Yes, my friends, me, other people who wrote in this topic, travelled to Russia and we will continue. And do you know why? Becasue we all have families in there. Our elderly parents (some of them due to heelth resons can't even go out of the apartment), our sisters/brothers/nieces and nephews/friends etc are still living there. What do you want from us, Russians, who live outside Russia for whatever reason? Do you want us to forget about our families in Russia, abandon them? Just put yourself in this situation and be honest to yourself what would you do

JTro · 09/04/2023 19:53

You can ask your Russian friends how we Russian calls Immigration in 90s and 2000s. We jokingly calls it "sausage immigration"probably they can explain you what it means. And at that time Russia was a "friend" of America, Britain etc, lots of grants, internships, even free Uni education for Russians, everything was open and free. If they were running from that, it was definitely not due to the dictatorship

theadultsaretalking · 09/04/2023 19:55

Panicmode1 · 09/04/2023 19:32

@Jtro I'm going to leave this here because I don't think we are going to agree - of course I understand she has Russian heritage (it's been a significant part of the discussion), but it doesn't change the fact that it isn't a wise decision, however safe you assert it is, and most people in the West view Putin and his regime negatively. By travelling to the country, and spending money which has been brought in from outside, one is benefitting Putin's regime; you will say that it's only one person - yet you have repeatedly asserted that you and several friends have travelled happily to and from Russia since the invasion of Ukraine. So multiply that many times, and it's not a benign act to travel to a country where the leader has been indicted for war crimes and acts with impunity on foreign soil. (And whilst there was a 'brain drain' exodus, there were also friends of mine who saw that the political landscape was darkening, and left.) Peace. Out.

I think what Jtro is trying to say is that it is somewhat unfair to conflate the two issues. The mother is not taking her daughter on a jolly to spend the money and support the dictatorship, she wants to take her to see an elderly relative who has no means of travelling out of the country.

Is it safe to travel? Most likely, despite what we may read in the papers, life in Russia continues pretty much as normal - this is not to say that people there are happy about what is going on (spoiler - they are not).

No one is asking you to travel to Russia or to a Middle Eastern country you don't agree with the politics of, however, I am not sure you are in a position to judge those, who have families there and need to see them.

theadultsaretalking · 09/04/2023 20:01

Also by the way, currently there are several options to cross the borders for those who have more than one passport. The crossings were open even during the COVID times.

If the borders get completely closed, that means the situation will escalate to the point of an open military conflict between Russia and Europe and in that case, the girl probably has a better chance of survival somewhere in the Ural mountains than in Europe.

PS - not that I think it will get to that!

JTro · 09/04/2023 20:02

theadultsaretalking · 09/04/2023 19:55

I think what Jtro is trying to say is that it is somewhat unfair to conflate the two issues. The mother is not taking her daughter on a jolly to spend the money and support the dictatorship, she wants to take her to see an elderly relative who has no means of travelling out of the country.

Is it safe to travel? Most likely, despite what we may read in the papers, life in Russia continues pretty much as normal - this is not to say that people there are happy about what is going on (spoiler - they are not).

No one is asking you to travel to Russia or to a Middle Eastern country you don't agree with the politics of, however, I am not sure you are in a position to judge those, who have families there and need to see them.

Show quote history

Exactly what I was trying to say! Thanks

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