DSD doesn’t want to go to Russia (I don’t blame her)

[CatherineEarnshawsGhost]

Hello,

Just wanted to see what others think about this situation.

DSD (11) has three passports - A European one from her dad (not British, an EU), an Australian one and a Russian one. My DH’s exW is Russian and is planning a trip to visit family in the Urals during the Summer holidays. DSD’s mum is now in the process of renewing their Russian passports as I guess they have both lapsed.

I suppose it’ll be a bit of a rigmarole to get there as they’ll have to fly via Turkey to get to Moscow. When they do get there I think they’d have to rely on cash (Rubles) as western bank cards won’t work and their British phones will probably have to be switched off in advance because when the Russian phone company detects a UK phone number on their network they are likely to become highly suspicious and track that phone (I work in telecoms, this isn’t unfounded paranoia they can do this so probably will).

Now that DSD is aware of the plan she’s voicing the fact that she’s feeling a bit nervous at the prospect of going. Honestly I don’t blame her. DH is also quite worried and would rather they don’t risk it, but doesn’t want to stop his DD from seeing her GPs and GGM who is 89 (I think). Overall DH wants what’s best for his DD so that would probably mean not going to a hostile country which is currently at odds with the west. He’s just needs to diplomatically approach his exW for the best outcome (no idea how he does that so I’ll leave it to him).

AIBU for being a bit nervous about seeing DSD go off to Russia?

Anyone else experienced this (unlikely but just checking)

Thanks!

She is not British as she said before and do not want to tell her origins, probably because she is ashamed of it. To be fair British people (majority of them) are not xenophobic and see the difference between politics and ordinary people.

If seeing the GGM is the parent’s main concern, why don’t they go alone. Your DSD could have video calls with her presumably.

you forgot to mention bear and balalaika.... pity if it's all you know about Russia and Russians

Morning, everyone. This thread has been badly derailed, which feels quite unfair on the OP, who is looking for advice. We've deleted quite a few posts from the thread but we'd like to draw a line under this now and get things back on track for the OP.

Thank you.

Having read all the above, maybe one of the reasons the mum wants to take her daughter with her is to remind her that Russians in their vast majority are nice and friendly people and that her DD shouldn't be ashamed of being half Russian. She can't stop being one.

It is an unstable country at the moment, but not fundamentally unsafe, so it should be a decision between the parents and involving their child - if she doesn't want to go, the mum shouldn't push it.

Ukraine is fine too, a couple of my family members work there. Business as usual restaurants,nightclubs,supermarkets open and better stocked than in the UK. Its only 20 percent fo Ukraine where the war is, areas with 70pcnt of russian population.

Given the Russian push on educating kids as part of the regime and disappearing Ukrainian children that would concern me.

If the mum didn't want to return, there is nothing the father could do and his daughter could be sucked into this education. Or the state could decide to prevent Russian children leaving.

We don't know how pro Russia mum is and neither does dad really. We don't know if Russia will introduce new restrictions on movement of its citizens. Or whether there will be further closure of borders to Russians from third party states. Or whether women will be called up. Keep in mind that anyone thought to be a traitor to the state is at risk of this - that means Russian nationals living abroad are potentially more at risk - if mum gets stuck the OP's step daughter could be caught in Russia with very elderly grandparents who are in poor health.

What is (Mum &) Dad's contingency plan then?

This thread isn't about moral rights or wrongs of the UK, EU or Russia past or present. It's about how safe an 11 year old (and her mother) will be there and whether she will be able to return freely.

Both can not be given an affirmative yes with a good level of certainty.

She should not go.

Hi @HebeMumsnet and to everyone on the thread.

I’ve just woken up and had a look at the latest comments - I’m so sorry emotions have been running high as a result of reading this dilemma. I know what an emotive subject this is so it’s easy to get passionate. Sorry if anyone commenting or just following has been upset or offended by any of the discussion - my post so my responsibility. Stay well everyone, in body and mind.

I was thinking about putting a request in to have this whole thing closed down (as Ive managed to take on board some good practical advice from many of you, TY) until I saw MNHQ’s intervention, so I appreciate the assistance. Will leave things as they are.

Incidentally, I find history and politics really interesting (history was 50% of my degree) so the questions of how we judge people from the past for their decisions and doings, and how we now judge that legacy in relation to ourselves/ our society in the present for what our ancestors did are important ones in my view. Two books which have helped me consider these ideas and arguments are EH Carr’s What is History? And RJ Evans In Defence of History. Both a bit dated now but I think the ideas still stand. Just in case anyone else can make use of them.

Thanks a million x

@RedToothBrush this is an incredibly clear and logical response thank you. Very helpful.

I’ve noticed a couple of hypotheses raised that if DSD is taken to Russia by her mum, mum may chose to stay there indefinitely. I really don’t see this happening at all, for a number reasons. DH’s ex really likes her life in London and is a serious professional with an established work life (she’s not a doctor but she is in a medical field as a mental health therapist). So don’t think she’d want to leave any of that. She’s also really keen on her daughter’s education so I don’t think she would disrupt that in any way (DSD starts Secondary School next year). Meanwhile, I don’t think she’d be that keen to return to Russia to live as she left quite young to get away from an overbearing mother (hence she went to Australia to study as soon as she could, that’s where the Australian passport comes from). I’m sure she loves her friends and family there but she seems quite content with the life she has here so I don’t think she’d be up for changing that. She has a BF too now so he’s another reason why she probably wouldn’t leave.

As to what she thinks about the current leadership in Russia - I believe she’s one of those people that’s quite apolitical and doesn’t think about any of that stuff. Not pro Putin, just apathetic, and I think her family are the same. They don’t get involved and keep their heads down. Doesn’t follow the news at all, but she became immediately aware of the invasion for obvious reasons, it being such a massive news story that naturally affects her family and involves homeland. That being said, she is also one of those people that thinks there are wrongs and rights on both sides of the conflict. Which isn’t a view I share, I think it lies squarely at the Russian Government’s door, but that’s just a personal view.

Another interesting / complicating factor is that DSD’s GD is himself Ukrainian and he grew up there (imagine he moved to Moscow as a young man). But as he was born during the time of the Soviet Union, “nations” as we think of them didn’t really exist according to the higher powers - you were either a soviet man or a soviet woman. Within the SU’s national borders didn’t exist.

It’s a very mixed picture in other words.

Fair enough.

You saying she works in health care in a much needed field, doesn't reassure though.

Medics have been called up as a priority

Thanks @RedToothBrush I don’t think her profession is that needed. I don’t think the Russian Military complex pay much attention to mental health. Trying to keep her exact profession vague to protect identities etc.

Complex situation.

I don't see why anyone else then the girl should stop her from going.

Physical danger of civilians in Moscow isn't high.
If some blackout or so comes, they will manage.
Sounds the family has resources to use in case the situation changes dramatically and they will need to leave the country fast.
Her mother can risk getting stuck herself and 11 yo who speaks several languages is capable of flying unaccompanied if the worst happened.

They need to think about practicalities as insurance ( UK market one might not be valid there), but if the father has no reason to expect his ex would want to remain there, it isn't completely insane to go and see DGGM.

If you mean medical insuranse the DSD and her mother will get it free as they are Russian citizens. If something happens with tickets/delays/etc - yes, that's the risk of loosing money

I mean they will get free medical help if it will be needed

Would she though? My FIL is a British passport holder living in an EU country, he does not get free medical care in the UK.

So for people asking if her GPs can come to the UK or if they can all meet up in a neutral country like Dubai or Turkey, they can and they do! Her GPs came over to the UK on a tourist visa not that long ago and for a chunk of time (not sure how they swung it, but they did) and have no problem moving around and through borders etc. (going via Turkey etc)
so if her GPs can exit Russia easily to Turkey etc , surely won't the OP's DD be able to do the same? How will they know she has come from/returning to the UK?
Also i am not sure whetehr a UK court would rule a child without a UK passpoert cannot travel to Russia when she has a Russian passport

yes, she would, different countries - different rules. Even if person doesn't have Russian citizenship, Ambulance will come and do initial treatment, free (of course, if it would be necessary)

Travel too and from Russia is fine and no more risky than before. You are worrying unnecessarily
I have friends who are in and out of Russia both for work and visit family

Ooh scrap that . They don't fly from the uk. So ignore my hungover advice!!!

A good friend of mine is Russian and has given up on the idea of going home for the foreseeable.

Export controls are making life increasingly unsafe in the most mundane ways in Russia. Most Russian medical equipment and planes require replacement parts made in the US and Germany, and stocks are running out. So it’s only a matter of time before there is a plane crash involving Russian planes due to mechanical failure. If you fall down a flight of stairs and bust your leg or break a tooth, you may not be able to get proper medical or dental care. Things like that.

If the diplomatic situation seriously deteriorates, I’d worry about being able to get out of Russia or being able to get back to the UK.

Just trying to understand, so is this trip because GGM is too old to travel at 89 (whereas the GPs could easily meet your SD outside of Russia)?

Yes exactly. I believe she’s pretty much confined to her bed these days so she gets by from support from either a healthcare professional (whatever the Russian equivalent would be) and/or family.

cheers