to point out that one Y chromosome does not make you a male

[Nimbostratus100]

In response to other posts insisting that one genetic test and one Y chromosome makes an athlete indisputably male with no room for error, I just want to point out that it not true.

There is always genetic exchange, for example, between a mother and baby, so anyone who has had a son will still have Y chromosomes in some cells in their body, and that will possibly show up in a genetic screening.

I am all for keeping men out of women's sport, and defining them genetically, but please lets not go over the top - one test does not prove you are male

I looked at a bloke 40 years ago and now I've got floaters in my eyes. Could they be invasive man bits?

So Nimbo has your friend been excluded from sports because of this issue?

Your friend who has birthed a child, who has working ovaries or actually who just as ovaries whether they work or not, so is female and can be easily verified as being female has been excluded from sports because of a cheek swab that contained a cell from carrying a male feotus ?

Because that is most concerning.

Surely they can ask for retesting? Surely they can ask for an appeal?

Can I ask what other posts you are referring to?

I think most of us can conclude that someone who has been pregnant is a woman, without the requirement for genetic testing.

Is this where the saying "boys have cooties" comes from? It just means that a y chromosome is gonna get you one day?

Generally ambiguous at birth, but can be completely normal after puberty - depends on the severity of the condition (5ARD).

You won't get an answer, @Helleofabore, as the OP is a bit tired now and seems to have left the thread.

Surely it didn't happen.

I do understand what you are saying, it's a well documented phenomenon. But back in the real world, very few female athletes are mothers so it's hardly a mainstream problem, it's also perfectly possible to take the fact they are a mother as proof!

I've been married twice.
Does that double my chances of becoming a man?

Well, yes, that is a very good point.

I’m on husband number 3 - am I an athlete?

I think as well as identifying as a teacher and a geneticist, OP also identified as tired and (above all) right.

Ooh, do explain

I don’t think nimbo is a TRA though. I think there are areas of disagreement, but I thought there were more areas of agreement than disagreement.

But lately, I have seen a couple of posters who seem to have been pro-women’s rights keen to tone police regular posters so who knows.

Ilovesooty

I do know that she's female and not a school child or an A level student.

If that's the case, why has she made a clumping trail of classic schoolboy errors?

(I'm not saying Nimbo is a man, I'm assuming that Ilovesooty has probably had some real life interaction).

I have read through and I am still confused.

A female who has carried a male foetus, but has ovaries and not testes and has a body that is unambiguously formed as a female is being excluded from sport based on a test that showed what??

That genetically they have chromosomes that are XY all over their body? Or that they the cells in the part of the body that was tested had chimera cells? What exactly?

I am trying to read this to work out what you are trying to say Nimbus but it seems still up for misinterpretation. Partly due to the tone taken in the rest of your posts.

Because it also feels from some of your posts that you ended up using this as some kind of blunt tool to make a point about women you disagree with on the topic of allowing males with DSDs leading to male pubertal benefits to play in female sports categories. Was this the motivation?

So if your friend is female, has ovaries and a body formed around the production of large gametes, (and of course, has not been through male puberty ), what was the intention of your post?

You're confusing genes and chromosomes.

😂

haha! I'm back, but not much point in answering any of this, as it is just the same things I've already answered being repeated over and over...

I dont think anyone scanning through this thread would have any difficulty identifying the ignorance and aggression that I was referring to though.

Still, I expect there are at least some readers who understand better now.

Blimey; loud, confident and wrong!

Not a geneticist, but I am a scientist. This thread is quite strange for me....an old friend used to be really into this stuff. Without a shadow of doubt, fetal cells do get across the placenta and end up in into the mother's circulation. My old pal did lots of work on this.... her reason was, if you can find a way to isolate the fetal blood cells from the mother's blood, then you can do genetic testing on these cells, which is much less invasive that sampling fetal/ placental tissue. what that procedure is called (retired). I haven't seen this friend for ages ... she will be retired too so no idea how her work panned out. There has been a lot done in this area....loads of papers on line.

As far as I can remember, virtually all of the fetal cells that end up in the mother's circulation come from the placenta and stay in the circulation until they die off. This can be a long time. Some progenitor blood cells from the fetus can end up inthe bone marrow and apparently can become functional blood producing cells, so there would be a few male blood cells in your circulation for years. Sound bizarre but yes....virtually every woman who's had a male child wil have a few male cells, complete with Y chromosome, lurking around in their body.

However, tissues (like the oral mucosa) are derived and maintained by stem cells that develop in the embryo. The idea that a fetal cell could enter the mothers body, set up shop in the mother's cheek and give rise to so many male cells that you get a false result in a future genetic sex test is pretty far fetched.

The simplest evidence of this is these tests are virtually 100% correct.....forensic scientists can, and do, identify people as male / female on the basis of DNA testing virtually every day. The idea that there is any difficulty in identifying a female athlete because of this is pretty bizarre. However, like all scientists, I wouldn't say it's absolutely impossible, but it's very difficult for me to imagine how it might happen.....although I suspect it never has.

Actually....cells go the other way too.....so a newborn baby now will have a few female cells from his mother drifting around their blood too. This doesn't make it harder to identify men!

Ah, if the OP is a geneticist and a teacher, then OP could be a biology teacher. Nothing to worry about there.👩‍🏫

I have read through your posts a couple of times and I still am slightly unsure of what you are saying.

Was your friend excluded from sport?

Is your friend a female with a body formed around the production of large gametes? Did they also have a pregnancy?