The neighbours are going to hate us

[Potentialneighboursfromhell]

I've just signed for the keys for a flat for me and my DC, it's on the first floor of a small block. There are 8 or 10 flats in total.

I wasn't in a position to hang about hoping something on a ground level came up.

I have 3 DC one of which has autism and adhd.

I came to the new property today to drop off a few bits ahead of the big move next week. The kids were excited, running around.

A downstairs neighbour came up to see if everything was OK and what all the noise was (it was the kids running around - this being the first time they had seen the place and they were excited)

I explained and apologised, the neighbour was fine but I got a sinking feeling as soon as I closed the door. My children are going to drive that poor man and his family mad. DS especially. He shouts, screams, bangs - due to his disability. It can't be controlled not for want of trying. Lord knows it drives me round the bend too.

I've been treading on egg shells the rest of the time we've been here. Telling the kids to "shh" and be quiet, take your shoes off so they don't hear you walking about, lower your voices, don't do this don't do that.

It's going to be hell for everybody. Kids included.

I've made a mistake haven't I? What the hell am I going to do now 😔

Have you posted the letter? I'm not sure it will help, I would possibly change some of it slightly.
I actually completely understand as I've been there. I wrote to all my neighbours when I was in a flat and had my baby because I was scared they would complain about the crying and they were all wonderful.
I then lived in a semi detached house, and my neighbours hated me. My son has ASD, it was genuinely just general living noise apart from when he would meltdown significantly. They would bang on my wall, ask what the fuck was wrong with him, can I not sort him out. He fell and scraped his knee in the garden when he was 2 and she yelled "shut that fucking thing up" over the fence. The stress of them made me so mentally unwell, I had a breakdown and was suicidal. It took 5 years to find somewhere we could afford and to save enough to move, and it's the best thing we've ever done. I'm a different person, a better parent, and my son is doing so much better because I'm so much more patient and understanding. I get you can't move right away, and it's so unhelpful to suggest - but rather than save for carpets, I would save to move. It may take time but it'll be the best thing for all of you. I'm really sorry you're going through this, I could hug you because I have lived it and that mixed with my PTSD and anxiety it almost killed me. Feel free to PM me ( I don't actually know how to access them but I'll try!) and if you'd like I'm happy to swap details and we can chat on WhatsApp or something when you're struggling. X

Hey OP, I thought I’d try rewriting your letter to be more assertive but still make the same points. Feel free to use any of my suggested sentence, and also to ignore any you don’t like.

Dear neighbour,
With regard to your complaints about noise on the 6th of May 2023, prior to 7pm, I would like to sat that I am sorry the noise from our flat is frustrating for you.
I have already made several significant changes to try to reduce the noise for you after you made it clear during the moving in process that the sound proofing between our flats is ineffective. To date I have;

• spent a sizeable sum on rugs. There is now a rug in every room. I am also saving up for carpets.
• removed toys that might make annoying noises, including my autistic son’s trampoline and balance board. I am uncertain though as to the efficacy of this action, as these toys, while noisy, help my son regulate his emotions and thus reduce meltdowns and the noise associated with those meltdowns.
• avoided inviting friends over to the flat, including foregoing a birthday party for my daughter recently.
• brought my children’s bedtime forward, to limit noise after 8pm as requested.
• been extremely careful about even minimal noise at night, such as from opening and closing doors.
• Set the volume on the tv to play very low after 8pm - so low I actually need subtitles to follow the dialogue.

Frankly there is nothing more I can do to limit the noise further. We can also hear quite a lot of noise made by other neighbours in the building, including at night. Are you certain that all the bothersome noise you are hearing is coming from my flat? It may also be traveling from floors higher up. While children are not always able to regulate the noise they make as effectively as adults, I would like to reiterate that we are doing our best. As you know, one of my children has a medical diagnosis (autism) that means he does have outbursts of emotion (known as meltdowns) that may be noisier and more frequent than neurotypical children. Meltdowns are difficult for us all, and most especially the child experiencing one, so I always do everything I can to help him avoid reaching that point. But it is just not possible to completely prevent all meltdowns. Your frequent complaints about our noise, the vast majority of which occurs during daytime hours (legally defined as 7am to 11pm), and actually, mostly between 7am and 8pm, are very stressful for me. Knowing I am already doing everything in my power to limit noise, in terms of volume, frequency and duration, could you please stop knocking on my door to complain to me and instead direct your complaints to the co-propriety of the building and to my landlord (via x agents), asking if they would consider improving soundproofing, as you are still experiencing a level of noise you find unacceptable depsite all my efforts.

If I got that letter from the neighbour I had who living underneath was absolute torture… it certainly wouldn’t have made me feel warmer towards them.

I don’t really know what you want to achieve, other than for the neighbour to go away and tolerate whatever noise your family makes, without complaint. That’s not reasonable. They sound like they might be noise sensitive, sure, but you also sound like a very noisy family. The only surefire way to solve it is to move. If you can’t move then you need to ignore the neighbours. Writing them passive aggressive letters about how mean they’re being in objecting to noise they have no control over is only going to make this worse.

Honestly your letter will end up in the garbage. It will have zero impact. In fact, they’d stop reading after the 3rd paragraph.

ultimately the situation is that your household is loud as fuck. you have multiple disabled people there and it’s unavoidable noise due to health, but it doesn’t make it any less irritating and complaints won’t stop as a result. your neighbours don’t have to give you “reasonable adjustments” for noise complaints. if any of your neighbours were making loud enough noises that set off your son’s meltdowns, I’m sure you’d be upset too rather than “understanding”. Neighbour noise can directly lead to poor mental health.

the only options they have are to move, or to report you to the council or police/social services depending on the situation. If your child sounds distressed for example. I think a council complaint is likely. I think they’ll continue to knock on your door too.

Kindly, it seems like you need some help with everything as it doesn’t sound like you’re coping well. Where’s your child’s father in all this? You obviously have a lot going on and being constantly stressed isn’t helping.

Also to add, I don’t think the council will act on a noise complaint and they will side with you under the circumstances. So rest assured that once the council complaint is done and dusted you might feel less stressed. But it will be a stressful battle getting to that stage.

Fight back OP

we'd all live in detatched houses if we could - but we can't, so neighbour noise is part and parcel.

You'd be in the wrong if you were doing nothing at all to improve the situation, but You're doing more than enough to mitigate it by the sounds - you need to stop letting these people run your life, not flushing the toilet for fear of upsetting them ? That stops right now.

Your neighbours have made their feelings known, that's fine, and I sympathise, now it's time for you to calmly but assertively say: I'm doing all I can, theres nothing more I can do.

If they don't like it they can redirect their complaints or move.

And to those on here saying OP should have used weapons grade foresight and risked homelessness so as not to make these people's lives a bit noisier - fucking come off it.

If the noise is not late at night or violating a noise ordinance, your neighbors are being rude and I agree, it's becoming borderline harassment.

Noise is part and parcel of communal living/apartment living. I read your letter and felt you addressed the issues well.

I find it strange that people are jumping on you for moving into a flat you can afford with the nonsense of "moving somewhere where the noise won't bother anyone". Noise is a part of life. Maybe the downstairs neighbors should go move out into the country, though I bet they would voice complaints about the noise from crickets, frogs and bumblebees too.

I hope you get your health issues solved soon and that you get some respite from the obnoxious downstairs noise police.

This is such a kind and understanding post. I hope the OP gets in touch as having someone to listen and just care, will make a world of difference.

I'm very noise intolerant and would hate living below you (or anyone tbh) BUT surely they must understand it's part of living in flats? My 4 year old DD sounds like a pet elephant when she's running about upstairs. I get angry at the kids in the street screeching and kicking balls until 7/8pm but ultimately I know there isn't anything I can do. as it's not late at night. We plan to move as soon as we can which is a shame since we've only been here for five months. You've gotten some good advice from other posters.

What a really unkind, nasty, unfair response. Ignore this OP

Some of the replies on this thread are appaling. I think your letter lays it out pretty clearly, I would hope that reading it would make your neighbour feel ashamed of themselves to be honest but quote clearly they think the world revolves around them so who knows. Your neighbours are in the wrong op, not you!

I don't. Think the letter will help either. It will make them more angry.

I'd concentrate with ignoring them and with getting proper underlay and carpeting down in the room your kids play.

the only options they have are to move, or to report you to the council or police/social services depending on the situation. If your child sounds distressed for example. I think a council complaint is likely. I think they’ll continue to knock on your door too. Kindly, it seems like you need some help with everything as it doesn’t sound like you’re coping well. Where’s your child’s father in all this? You obviously have a lot going on and being constantly stressed isn’t helping.

This is the last thing in the world I need right now and am petrified of happening. Thanks

Of course DS will sound distressed, meltdowns are distressing. The last thing people with autistic children need is reporting to social services. I get a ton of support from his special needs school and that doesn't even stop the meltdowns. Everybody does all they can to support DS. The implication that I should be reported to SS is just fucking cruel but is exactly the sort of malice that I'm expecting from the neighbours downstairs. I'm going to leave the thread. Thank you to the genuine posters.

That is much more concise and non accusatory.

OP you have done all you can to reduce the noise but at the end of the day, your neighbours chose to live in a flat with people above them! I suspect they will never be happy until there is total silence.

I wouldn’t bother with carpets. You are renting and it will take a lot of your money which you won’t get back.

You have made reasonable adjustments and they are still moaning. Send that letter and then contact your landlord. Tell them the family never stop moaning and that you have tried to do all you can but you have children and it’s normal family noise.

And stop being so quick to answer your door to them. And if you do answer, very politely but very firmly reiterate that you have done all you can and it’s only 8pm or whatever. You are not playing music at midnight for goodness sake!

Of course, you could ask them if they would like to swop flats…

Thank you 🥺

I'll be posting the letter that desperately kindly drafted for me, I agree its much better than mine.

Glad that you are using the reworded letter as it is much less accusatory

You talked a lot in your letter, and in your posts, about disabilities. Have you ever considered that the woman downstairs may have disabilities too with regards to sound sensitivity? Knowing someone that has it I know how debilitating it is. But to be fair my relative lives in communal living and accepts that it’s their issue to deal with and would never dream of complaining to others

In your case it’s unlikely as I am sure they would have mentioned it but something to be mindful of when you meet someone who is so extreme about hearing noise

Final draft going to the neighbour this afternoon

....

Dear neighbour,

With regard to your complaints about noise on the 6th of May 2023, prior to 7pm, I would like to say that I am sorry the noise from our flat is frustrating for you. I have already made several significant changes to try to reduce the noise for you after you made it clear during the moving in process that the sound proofing between our flats is ineffective. To date I have;

• Spent a sizeable sum on rugs. There is now a rug in every room. I am also saving up for carpets as the rugs appear to be making very little difference for you.

• Removed toys that might make annoying noises, including my autistic son’s trampoline and balance board. I am uncertain though as to the efficacy of this action, as these toys, while noisy, help my son regulate his emotions and thus reduce meltdowns and the noise associated with those meltdowns.

• Avoided inviting friends over to the flat, including foregoing a birthday party for my daughter.

• Brought my children’s bedtime forward to limit noise after 8pm as requested by you.

• Been extremely careful about even minimal noise at night, such as from opening and closing doors.

• Set the volume on the tv to play very low after 8pm - so low I actually need subtitles to follow the dialogue.

• Continously trying to quieten noise the children make, which is stressful for me and not fair on them.

• Increased the amount of time we spend outdoors in general.

Frankly there is nothing more I can do to limit the noise further at this moment in time. We can also hear quite a lot of noise made by other neighbours in the building, including at night.

The walls and floors are so poorly soundproofed I can hear entire conversations, people's phones vibrating (which is so clear it sounds as though its coming from my flat itself) and people coming and going in the night. I can hear neighbours toilets flushing, people dropping things on the floor, banging, other people's children shouting out / crying.

While children are not always able to regulate the noise they make as effectively as adults, shout loudly / have tantrums / meltdowns and often set one another off, I would like to reiterate that we are doing our best and do care about the impact this is having on you.

As you know, one of my children has a medical diagnosis (autism) that means he does have frequent outbursts of emotion (known as meltdowns) that may be noisier and more frequent than neurotypical children. Meltdowns are difficult for us all, and most especially the child experiencing one, so I always do everything I can to help him avoid reaching that point but it is just not possible to completely prevent all meltdowns or ensure he keeps his voice and noise down all of the time during daytime hours.

He has alot of sensory processing difficulties that others can find difficult, including banging and shouting out - I am working hard with his special needs school to find ways to redirect this behaviour and replace it with more socially acceptable coping mechanisms.

Your frequent complaints about our noise, the vast majority of which occurs during daytime hours (legally defined as 7am to 11pm), and actually, mostly between 7am and 8pm, are very stressful for me and have resulted in me feeling very uncomfortable here which I'm sure is not your intention.

Knowing I am already doing everything in my power to limit noise, in terms of volume, frequency and duration, could you please stop knocking on my door and pressing my buzzer to complain to me and If, after my ongoing efforts, you feel you are still experiencing a level of noise you find unacceptable I ask that you refer any complaints to the co-propriety of the building, asking if they would consider contributing to my soundproofing efforts.

I'm going to be taking this matter to my landlord personally and requesting permission to install the carpets mentioned above which I hope will dampen the noise more successfully for you.

Rest assured I will always adhere to doing my best to minimise noise and the impact it has on you but I ask that you please try to be tolerant of my family during daytime hours when 99.9% of this noise is happening.

Again, I am very sorry that you find living below us so stressful. I am also upset by this and hope that in time with understanding on both parts we can find a happy medium that works for everybody.

Kind regards

Number 8

@Potentialneighboursfromhell
Sending you my utmost sympathy. To me your neighbours sound like idiots and some of the replies on here have been horrible.

Personally I would put a sign on my door saying “I apologise for the noise - I am doing all I can. Thank you for understanding” and disengage.

That's a great letter OP.

I hope your letter spells out to them that they are twats...

Send the 1st letter nothing wrong with it

OP regards the buzzer

When I lived in a maisonette we had entry buzzers inside.
There was an option on that to silence it whenever you want too
Do you have that type of buzzer? If so, turn it off if not even expecting anyone.

I would just write a note saying that you are doing your best to keep noise to a minimum so they need to stop with their complaining now. Then invite them to contact the council and start a nosie complaint as that will be the end of it as the council are not going to take action against a disabled child making noise. Then they can fuck off.

That's a brilliant letter, Potentialneighboursfromhell.

You have all my sympathy. You've been dealt an extremely rough hand and you appear to be coping with it admirably, even if it doesn't feel that way.