Grooming of children aged 10-12 actually on Dutch TV

[thepox]

I don't know how old this clip is, but this is utterly insane.

How is this allowed? Didn't grooming used to be covert?

I actually agree with this, my eldest is about to turn 14 and if they removed some of the cruder jokes or innuendo I'd love to watch it with her! I have two girls are two boys so everyone has seen a bit of everything but I think healthy body positivity and different people would be a great thing to show her (makes a change from me stumbling to the bathroom cellulite and stretch marks akimbo 😂😂)

I refuse to click on the link. But you might want to report the video rather than sharing it on here. And shame on the perverts posing screen grabs of it on here.

Absolutely hate it when one person claims to speak for all the victims.

I was also victimised. And I was taught that bodies are shameful and need to be covered up. I learned they’re inherently sexual so it must have been my fault I was abused for looking appealing.

A culture of openness around bodies would have led me to blame mine less, not only that but to be able to name the parts that were touched and hurt. I didn’t have the language and it was all so ‘yucky’ and hushed up I learned it was best to just shut up and pretend it didn’t exist.

You can’t speak for every formerly exploited child, thanks.

You mean the OP?

I'm not sure on what grounds you'd report this video.

When I was a child my siblings and I saw both of our parents naked. My mother was German and had a much more relaxed attitude to nudity. I remember telling schoolfriend that I had seen my parents naked ,they were shocked! I brought my children up in the same way, as they went into their teens they obviously needed more privacy, which was fine. DD has been the same with her children.

There was a paedophile “handbook” published a few years ago - a sort of playbook of the plan to win acceptance and erode safeguarding. Obviously I don’t know if it was true or not, but I don’t know why anyone would make it up. Anyway, the number one action was to normalise adult strangers being naked around kids. I’ve had cause to think about that a lot since. Especially when little girls are called perverts for noticing that the “women” in their changing rooms have a penis.

'Chatty!'

I wasn't I was just just telling my thoughts

I had a chatty Cathy doll too with the pull plug

Not the best 70s memory for me

I respect your experiences so respect mine

There is no such thing as a person in the wrong body @MammaMacgill87

Our bodies are our bodies. We need to learn to love them, especially as girls when our bodies suddenly become sexualised.

We do not normalise anorexia or any other kind of body dysmorphia. And we shouldn't celebrate mental illness as a positive thing. It isn't.

thepox** I posted about it here www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4760631-dutch-tv-showing-naked-transgender-people-to-11-12-year-olds

Got different replies.

Clyneme

Totally agree

This kind of grooming is being normalized. The fact that there is even a debate and some people willing to defend it shows the battle for protecting children has been lost. Good luck if you have young kids. You are going to need it.

Taking the trans part out of it for a moment

I have no issue with children being able to see a range of naked bodies as they head into puberty

If the only naked bodies children see as they head into the teenage years are porn stars and nearly naked models (underwear etc) they are going to get a very warped view of what normal

Normalising a range of body types could lead to healthier mental outlooks in teenagers and adults

In terms of the word 'mutilated' I understand not wanting to promote body dysmorphia, anorexia and unnecessary surgery etc. But I think there is a line between that and complaining about children seeing 'mutilated' bodies. Because that comes very close to an expectation that people with amputations and scarring from surgery should try to hide their bodies whilst it's considered okay for conventionally pretty usually young people to show theirs off. And again that's a very unhealthy attitude to allow pre teens/teens to pick up on.

There are also different attitudes to the degree of nakedness that is suitable around the world. I'm pretty sure a lot of people in Britain would be in uproar if we were suddenly expected to cover up in a way we hadn't had to before. I'm not sure we get to be morally superior and impose our cultural ideas about nakedness and modesty on other countries and cultures.

It certainly seems so going from the responses you're getting on this thread! Absolutely mind boggling

STOP NORMALISING CHOPPING BITS OF YOUR BODY OFF TO CHILDREN.

Shame on any parents commenting on here that it's OK to expose children to that.

Its part of a sickening bloody picture ffs.

The world's gone insane.

In the mind of a person who's in the wrong body, those body parts are wrong or 'diseased'

It doesn’t make them objectively “diseased” though, does it? That’s why I’m not sure we can compare those cases with mastectomies caused by cancer.
To me, it’s like if you have two people trying to lose weight because they feel too heavy, with one of them being objectively overweight and the other one anorexic - the latter might feel “fat”, but nobody would use them as an example for an overweight body just because that’s what they are in their own mind.

YANBU. It’s absolutely awful.

Agree with this. Explaining how some women have mastectomies because of cancer is one thing, presenting breast removal as a viable option to a teenage girl who might feel deeply uncomfortable with her changing body is a different matter.

I understand that you might think this is inappropriate but I don’t understand how anything in this could be equated to grooming? My understanding is grooming is about building a relationship with a child in order to then sexually assault them or use them for crime etc, nothing in this suggests the adults are trying to form relationships with any individual children on the show?

It's grooming children to think or behave in a way that will cause them damage sexually. In regards to their private parts.

Hope that clarify things.

How thick do you have to be to not see what is happening here? Of which this programme is but a tiny piece of.

Do some parents not want to see? Because it's russian roulette now as to whether it's YOUR child who will be impacted by whats occurring. And the odds are increasingly stacked one way

@MolkosTeenageAngst its grooming because it’s eroding barriers - it’s normalising strange adults being naked around those children. Those particular adults might not be the ones to “benefit” from that boundary erosion, but it’s there.

But in the netherlands (and many other European countries) nudity is far more normalised, far less sexualised and not the ‘barrier’ you may see it as here in the UK. Within the context of the culture within which this programme has been made it is not eroding a barrier in the same way it would be if it was made in the UK, where nudity is far more taboo and sexualised.

There really is a complete difference between children seeing naked bodies causally (changing room etc) and children being directed to take a good long look at someone's genital area.

Would you all think it ok if a father gathered his children around him and told them to have a really good look at his penis and balls because he says it's educational in some way?

Especially when little girls are called perverts for noticing that the “women” in their changing rooms have a penis.

Please, can you provide some evidence that little girls have been called perverts for this? How many cases of "women" exposing their penis have there actually been?

I am not Dutch. What do I care.

Yes. In Sweden, Switzerland etc as far as I recall as well. Naked mixed spas etc are the norm there