Grooming of children aged 10-12 actually on Dutch TV

[thepox]

I don't know how old this clip is, but this is utterly insane.

How is this allowed? Didn't grooming used to be covert?

It's not about sex. It's about understanding the different 'bits' people have. In a safe environment. Or put it better, not to shame a mum or dad about their bits if their child happens to see them.

It's seems to me the UK and America are the main countries guilty of sexualizing adult bodies. The body isn't inherently sexual it's a machine and most other countries have nude beaches nude spas etc, it also sparks the naked parent debate around kids which is equally as precious and blown away out of proportion here. People offended by nudity tend to be projecting their own issues and biases and should consider why that is

I agree, it seems that those posters most uncomfortable about this seem to see the human body as "inherently sexual". Not everyone views it like that.

It's a bit like the way in which some people are incredibly squeamish about breastfeeding because of the way they perceive the female body.

You explained it better than me

Not only that, general nudity also opens up conversation about consent and kids tend to be more educated and free with speech if there is a more open culture. Again naked doesn't equal sexual you'd be surprised how smart and intuitive children are given the opportunity. Teaching shame, and secrecy and modesty around bodies causes a million more issues. Weight issues body image issues, shame, disgust unrealistic expectations..etc etc

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/michelangelo-school-principal-fired-david-statue-b2307088.html%3famp

Is this you, OP?

There is nothing unsavoury or pornographic or dangerous about a naked human body.

In countries like Germany are there not still boundaries in place about when it's appropriate for adults and children to be naked? So in spas with an adult parent/carer present, or in a swimming pool. Not just casually whenever an adult feels like being naked. So not in school, or at a train station, shopping centre or a children's play area.

Brits are known for being squeamish with these issues and consequently much higher teen pregnancy rates and Jimmy Savile etc

The Netherlands has its share of child abuse too.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48022950

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/71-of-child-sex-abuse-images-are-from-netherlands-rx9s5c69n

www.newsendip.com/one-in-3-girls-aged-15-to-17-has-faced-sexual-harassment-or-sexual-violence-in-the-netherlands/

nltimes.nl/2021/06/08/netherlands-failing-protect-children-sexual-violence-national-rapporteur

AMrsBennett

Yes I do.

Yes, absolutely, and where shame about the body is a big deal, then it must be even harder for children to speak up about potential abuse.

And lastly the trans debate is a moot point
I almost guarantee there would be far less body dysmorphic issues and trans issues if the shame and confusion and sexualization of the human body stopped. Many detransitioners have said openly their issues stemmed from control after the feeling of not enjoying being sexualized, or the normal teenage issues of confusion at their changing body and the social pressures that brought.
Again the stigmatizing and sexualization of the human body in supposed first world countries causes so many issues across society. I don't doubt there are many genuinely trans people who I support 100% but given the chance if they'de been brought up in a more open society accepting of their differences same with gay or non-binary or any alternative lifestyle perhaps many people would be in a happier more supported place in their life, without major medical intervention

OK, but that just makes you sound quite narrowminded and ethnocentric. If there is no evidence to suggest that paedophilia is actually more of an issue in those countries where nudity is not seen as such a taboo, then on what grounds can you argue that they're linked? I think you're on really shaky ground with that.

Teaching shame about bodies is nothing to do with teaching boundaries or dignity

Don't be so bloody daft

My best friend has a double mastectomy due to cancer, I'm about to have my womb removed for the same reason, my mother had terrible burns as a child, what's wrong with kids seeing these things? It happens every day. When they don't see them they do what everyone else does, stares , isolates bullys

There has been child abuse everywhere, for years. Long before transgenderism. As to who is benefitting, i don't know. It could be hospitals, it could be the kids who feel they were born in the wrong body. I have no experience so I just don't know. But I won't dismiss the trans experience because of my ignorance.

My mum was like you!

He's only joking only playing as were all the other parents. 70s! Teachers too dismissed us.

Instead of preaching to the damaged and frankly angry maybe you should listen.

Clearly you and yours have never been targeted or maybe yours have but your complete belief that 'it's all normal and healthy' and patronising others makes you feel somehow superior?

Listen listen listen that's my advice because in your insistence to be 'balanced and open' you are just the type to be hoodwinked and manipulated.

Paedophiles love open minded parents like you.

I totally agree! But I think you're the one that is linking these things.

I don't think you need to teach kids to feel ashamed of their bodies in order to teach and boundaries and dignity in the slightest. Quite the contrary, I think it's much easier to teach about appropriate boundaries if there is a general openness that makes it easy to talk about these things.

I was saying to some friends the other day that if there wasn't so much sex talk and smuttiness on Naked Attraction (and the premise of rejecting people based solely on looks!) it would be a programme I would like to show my daughter as I think it is actually very body positive. If there could be a programme which is appropriate for her (age 11) to watch to see that bodies can be all shapes and sizes, (and especially the private bits we don't usually see on other people cos those are the boys kids worry about right?!) I think that would actually be a really positive thing.
Kids learning about the body isn't grooming...

No, sorry. That's a cheap shot and I'm not buying it.

I am genuinely sorry that you had such awful experiences when you were a child, and I understand that this has probably left you with some complex feelings about this subject.

However, I will not accept the accusation that a belief that the human body does not always need to be hidden away as something inherently shameful is even remotely comparable to dismissing or normalising sexual abuse. It is absurd and offensive to suggest this, but I will assume that this is because of your past trauma getting in the way of you thinking rationally about this issue.

Oh! My post was deleted. What a surprise.

Removing healthy body parts is not the same as removing diseased body parts @MammaMacgill87. I also have several friends who have had to have the breasts removed because of cancer. Absolutely their bodies are not shameful.

I'm not quite sure why you raised it? This is not the same.

This. Who gains from this sort of TV? I don’t see how a child does…?
It is not ‘Normalising nakedness’ - it’s already normal there.

I am not buying it??

Yes of course you not listening but hey ho as you say you don't want to hear

Up to you of course that's the way it is with people like you.

Being certain is safe for you ugly is too hard to contemplate

In the mind of a person who's in the wrong body, those body parts are wrong or 'diseased' there is no shame in the education of all manner of different bodies education is power and more often than not actually stops children or teens or adults making rash choices because they see the actual outcome instead of a fairy tail sold by the media, how can you not see that? If kids had actual easily accessible normalized images that they could see if they were looking to make a change they'd be more informed. Currently they biggest representation of trans or different bodies is porn which is far more readily available and accessable than genuine normal every day people and accounts of change. Kids as young as 9 in the uk have already been exposed to porn and fetishisation is that what you'd prefer? Because there's a clear want and need for education just because you don't like is doesn't mean it isn't there

I don't know what you mean about "people like me" but I am not going to engage with you further on this subject because I actually feel sorry for you. You can characterise it as me not listening if you like. The reality is that I have no wish to argue with someone whose analytical ability and judgement is so clearly clouded by past trauma.

I hope you find peace.