AIBU to be horrified that this man equal women's rights even though he says "he's comfortable with his genetils" Would you be happy to share a dressing room with him?

[Imarealwoman]

https://4w.pub/fetish-footballer-policy/

@Imarealwoman so trans men and women in the 3rd space?

So what about the trans men (or women as you believe they are). You're happy that they are put at risk in the same facilities as all the trans women? (or men as you believe they are)

@ATerrorofLeftovers I have tried to engage many times. I'm usually quite quickly told what I can do with myself.

@ATerrorofLeftovers I believe that proper structures can be put in place that can allow this to happen safely for everyone involved.

Because there's lots of evidence that transwomen retain male patterns of leeriness etc. There's been proven rapes in female toilets by transwomen, not to mind prisons, upskirting and filming in changing rooms - theres even a whole genre on p*rnhub called Primark changing room. Not to mind sports - thats well documented.
There's a danger to making semi private spaces mixed. That was the transactivist argument from the start - and everyone said OK, transwomen are unsafe in male spaces. But now that we have ample evidence that some transwomen are a danger to women in semi private spaces, and some men are utilising this loophole to gain access for "leeriness". But it doesn't seem to matter this way round.

It's an awful pity for ordinary transpeople who just want to fit in as an everyday person. But this isn't working, imo. It's not fair to expect women to take the brunt of inclusion

Have you links to this evidence? Because certainly in Ireland it is not something I have come across.

I'm intrigued. How would you ensure safety and fairness?

How would you ensure a rugby tackle between a biological male and biological female wouldn't result in serious injury like paralysis or traumatic brain injury for the female? How would you mitigate against the superior size, weight and strength of the male?

How would you ensure a level playing field for fairness where male bodies confer advantage - eg the longer and strong limbs of a male swimmer? The wider shoulders, etc.

How would you make allowances in shared changing rooms for women who feel unsafe in a vulnerable state of undress in the presence of a male? Or are prevented by their religion from being undresses in mixed company? Who leaves the changing room - the Muslim woman or the woman who's traumatised by being raped, or the trans woman? And why?

Perhaps more importantly, why do you think it's preferable to divide sport by gender, rather than sex?

But flounder they are not women. They are men.

We have plenty of laws and separation of resources based on sex due to the violent nature of men as a class towards women and girls.

There is no evidence to suggest that men, no matter how they identify, lose this predisposition.

Any changes to the law, interpretation of laws or their application doesn't just impact a tiny minority. It impacts the majority of the population eg women and girls.

But flounder men & women have been always segregated.. No problems until some men decide nope not having this, I'll put on a dress, identify as a woman & off he prowls.
Giulia says he's "comfortable with his genetils" but me, my daughters & many, many women are not comfortable with Giulia's genetils. Why should we compromise for him? Why can't he use the men's?

No. That's a man, not a woman.

Do mumsnet still delete posts that state that men aren't women?

@1Week you hit it in one.. Many harmless trans just want to fit in. Their own toilets, changing spaces, prisons will make that easier from them & women won't be comprising. Women are so opressed.

If any British mum is reading please, please do all you can from preventing Gender Identification. Ireland has turned into a disaster zone. What future do our daughters have.. Barbie Kardashian & GIULIA are the poster boys for Gender Indentification in Ireland. Don't let it happen on your watch in the UK.

Nope, mumsnet have woken up & kudos to them. They have been fantastic lately.

Either that or the toilets or their biological sex. No penises in any woman's space.

@Flounder2022

If trans women are women why on earth would we need case by case decisions for prisons and refuges?

Segregation to protect women who are vulnerable is not discrimination. Its protection.

If women are telling you they need this protection, why arent you listening?

Why don't you believe them?

Women do not have to be at risk of physical harm to suffer discrimination.

The GRA that none of us voted for.
I absolutely voted yes for Equal marriage, what the actual fuck is this, forgive the joke, appendage?

You can believe whatever the fuck you want. But you don't have the right to force your beliefs on others in the face of objective, material reality. The rest of us may politely nod when you say communion becomes the literal body of Christ through some mysterious, mystical process but you know what? It remains a fucking wafer.

When you're actually working day in day out with victims of male violence, you see why this stuff matters. Safeguarding exists for a reason. It exists with the worst case scenario in mind. Only predators stand to gain from dismantling it.

Shame on any man or woman who doesn't think beyond their own smug satisfaction at being 'virtuous'. Shame on those who just don't give a fuck about the safety of women, girls and autistic teenagers, all of whom are being offered up on the altar of this ideology. At best it's infantile nonsense; at worst it opens all sorts of doorways for predators. Not because all men are predators but because the percentage who are are the very men who will work so damn hard to access victims. And now the people who should be upholding safeguarding are throwing the doors open for predators - cheered on by people who would rather have sparkly BE KIND badges than critical thinking.

I think having TW share women's toilets/changing rooms is the same as having men sharing them. Most will be sound but a small percentage will not, the same as men. Mostly it'll be okay, but sometimes it won't and any extra risk is too much. I don't want to take that risk for myself or my daughters. I don't mean any disrespect to transpeolpe by saying that, but it simply is riskier letting male bodied people access to female areas. I'm in Ireland too btw.

To answer your question I do think TW are more of a risk than women, yes, and the stats (available for England and Wales) bear this out in spades.

@Orders76 it's not in the constitution, the GRA can be changed, reversed or abolished. Now for the party that have the balls to do it?
The more photos of BK & Giulia circulate, the better. Ireland needs to be made a spectacle of. The USA are starting to reverse laws even going as far as to ban drag. Ireland needs to reverse the GRA. We need to be on the right side of history not part of horrific scientific experiment that's already gone horribly wrong.

Interested that you see it this way around and not the other. You're worried about laws that impact trans people, but don't seem to have concern when it's round the other way - when laws are changed so that they now have a detrimental effect on women.

Is that the case? Or are you just not thinking that some men will take advantage of laws and rules that allow them to be in women's safe spaces?

If it's the latter, please can you DM me where you live, as I'd like to come and live there! Because my life experience shows me that there are always a few rotten apples in any society, though the overwhelming majority are good. And there are always some who'll take advantage. And it's the most vulnerable who suffer when they do.

In the case of sex advantage, it's females who are vulnerable, while males are less so (as a class). Purely because of the way biology governs development of muscle, bone, ligament, bone structure, etc. That's why we need women's safe spaces to stay female only. I'd be very happy for trans people to have their own safe spaces in addition, where this is a need for this. But this can't be at the expense of compromising the safety of women and girls.

@ATerrorofLeftovers you put this way more polite than I have😁 absolutely right protect women, children & elderly. Leave our spaces alone.
Transwomen are not women. I got into an argument on here about how menstruation & periods are a huge part of life as a woman. A monthly occurance. The virtue signaller said there was no science to prove that periods made you a woman😂😂😂

My whole female family is shocked at all the bullshit and BK, gaa etc.
At the start I was so inside with Leo, now I just see him and Roderic as horrible liars.
Michael who I respected much less is back closer to my top, above them, ML or any other feelings bull.

Just in case anyone is reading this and unaware.

To be a transwoman, a male simply has to have the thought in his head. No physical changes need to be made to access women's spaces. No diagnosis, no surgery, no hormones, and not even a change of clothes is needed. There is no gatekeeping for the majority of the time, just accepting someone's word for it.

Imagine the dodgiest bloke you know, we all know at least one, don't we? You know, the one you didn't like to be left alone with, or hid from in the women's toilets as he gets handsy when he's had a drink. Now that bloke is called Tiffany and is in the changing room with your 11-year-old daughter, is that OK? Because I don't think it is.

Over 90% of transwomen still have a penis by the way, and most of them are attracted to women (and like to call themselves lesbians).

Third spaces would be the answer, it would allow trans people a space for themselves, plus all of the vocal allies would be in there too I assume.
Why do you think the likes of Stonewall aren't campaigning for them?

@ Flounder - you asked for figures

From Helen Joyce's Trans

" Of the 125 transgender prisoners known to be in English prisons in late 2017, sixty were transwomen who had committed sexual offences, a share far higher than in the general male prision population, let alone in the female one. So either TW are more likely than other males to be sexual predators, or - more probable in my view- gender self ID provides sexual predators with a marvellous loophole. Whichever is true, allowing males to self-identity into women's spaces makes women less safe. As for the danger to TW from using male spaces, raising this is a backhanded acknowledgement of the purpose of female spaces."

What is the difference between a man who claims to identify as a lesbian being in a women's changing room as compared to a heterosexual man being there?

Should we allow any man who wishes to do so to enter a space where girls and women are undressing for his own gratification?

There needs to be a Boycott of the GAA at grassroots level. My daughters are young, they love their football & camóige but I can't stand back & support any longer 😢 our membership & subs are paid up for this year & we're holding on for the cúl camp 🙈after that we're gone! The girls are starting hockey in Sept..