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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Was my daughter cheeky or not?

130 replies

Apricodonut · 02/04/2023 10:47

My daughter (early 20s) had a slight situation at work and is now worried sick that she was in the wrong.

Just for a bit of context- my daughter has been raised to be independent, confident and most of all honest. However, she has also been taught not to be forceful, domineering and cocky. She’s an intelligent young woman who is capable of standing up for what she believes is correct. I’m very proud of her but as her parent not blind to the fact she can be in the wrong too!

At her work, there was talk of a pay rise. Her manager had explicitly said there would be a pay rise for everyone as recognition for their hard work. It had been built up over the last few months to generate some excitement. Last week she had her individual meeting to discuss her pay rise and was told it was going up by certain amount. My daughter immediately realised this amount was actually the new minimum wage and that the pay rise was not due to hard work but due to the increase in the minimum wage. She said she wasn’t bothered by not getting a pay rise in the first place, but felt it was disingenuous to suggest the new pay was due to hard work as has been said rather than due to a new minimum wage. My daughter said she pointed this out, and that while she was happy with the pay she also wasnt happy that they were suggesting it was a generous pay increase rather than just the law. Her manager disagreed and said it was a pay rise for hard work. My daughter said this isn’t the first time something like this has happened and that she stood her ground that the situation was dishonest and misleading. She said it turned into a lengthy discussion about it but eventually it was left that she was unhappy with the situation as it was handled.

Just to clarify she is never rude or aggressive and is actually a strong debater, but sometimes she struggles to know when to leave something for the greater good even though it may be correct

She said her manager is clearly annoyed at her now and she regrets speaking up. She’s considering formally apologising but I thought it would be worthwhile getting some other opinions and thoughts on the situation first.

TIA x

OP posts:
RedDoughnut · 02/04/2023 13:01

Well done to your daughter!

StressedToTheMaxxx · 02/04/2023 13:03

She's in the right with her point however it's how she said it that is the answer to whether she was cheeky or not. None of us, not even you, can know how the conversation went, the tone that was used etc. So we can't answer if she was cheeky or not.

majesticminimilk · 02/04/2023 13:07

She is in the right but her next move could affect her prospects. I think she's smart to be worried she has annoyed her manager.

If what matters is being right then she can do nothing. If she wants to get her manager back on side I would tell her to send an email or meet her manager and say

  • I didn't like how we left things at the meeting
  • I like working here and I want to do well
  • I knew minimum wage was increasing so when you said my pay rise was for hard work I thought it'd be more than the new minimum wage
  • I am sorry if it came across as ungrateful
  • I was disappointed but I appreciate the increase and thank you

It is basically doing a bit of grovelling while getting across the point that they're not doing anything special for her.

If that goes o.k. then she can say she wants to understand what she can do to get a bigger pay rise next time.

BadNomad · 02/04/2023 13:08

I suppose from her manager's point of view they didn't have to give a pay increase to anyone who was already on more than the new minimum wage.

Densol57 · 02/04/2023 13:08

Wow ! Im super impressed by your daughter and she definitely shouldn’t be in a minimum pay role. I can see her doing very very well for herself 👏👏👏bravo 😁👍🏼

BadNomad · 02/04/2023 13:12

Is she actually on minimum wage? I assumed she was on more than that and this pay rise is the same value as the increase in NMW.

DiddyHeck · 02/04/2023 13:17

Densol57 · 02/04/2023 13:08

Wow ! Im super impressed by your daughter and she definitely shouldn’t be in a minimum pay role. I can see her doing very very well for herself 👏👏👏bravo 😁👍🏼

Why shouldn't she be in a minimum pay role?

The OP mentions nothing about her DD's qualifications, experience or how good she is at her job.

Honestly, the way some people are talking on this thread, it's like people on NMW can't possibly posses intelligence and conversational skills.

It's insulting.

HerNameIsIncontinentiaButtocks · 02/04/2023 13:30

Wouldn't surprise me if the manager hadn't known it was a NMW rise and was wrongfooted to be told that they'd been lied to by their senior. Don't have to be well informed to be a manager, particularly a manager of NMW staff. Unfortunately.

IoooAINToooSAYINGoooSHEoooA · 02/04/2023 13:32

Is she on minimum wage? And is still going to be on minimum wage? Or is she above min wage but got the same rise per house as min wage?

Isyesterdaytomorrowtoday · 02/04/2023 13:36

She sounds smart & if she can maintain that whilst being polite and professional then she’s going places.

The need to apologise here would solely be down to tone & language used. Her point was 100% correct, how she said it none of us can judge.

Is this role a stepping stone to something else for her?

IDontWantToBeAPie · 02/04/2023 13:37

@DiddyHeck you can be smart and strong without being honest. I don't mean a simpering woman who agrees with everything.

I mean be smarter about it. Inform other staff members, tell the people you know so it spreads around, work your wage, don't do him any favours etc. Avoid possible firing with the same result.

Isyesterdaytomorrowtoday · 02/04/2023 13:39

Assuming all the staff getting it are NMW? If not then they are getting genuine pay rises, there’s no legal obligation to apply it to anyone except those on NMW

Largeflaskoftea · 02/04/2023 13:42

Good for her! She’s absolutely right.

I had this once years ago with an agency making out how generous they were offering holiday pay. Er no, it had actually just become mandatory for temporary staff to accrue holiday pay.

gloriousmulch · 02/04/2023 13:45

Good for her, she sounds great, and she doesn’t need to apologise.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 02/04/2023 13:46

Never raise daughters to be honest. It only harms us. Men never believe what women say anyway. Sounds like she was right with her thought, but if she wants to succeed she'll need to get much smarter. Much much smarter.

You spelled 'doormat' wrongly there.

I suppose that is one way to stop women feeling aggrieved for wanting to be treated as equal to men: just convince them that they aren't worth it in the first place.

IDontWantToBeAPie · 02/04/2023 13:48

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 02/04/2023 13:46

Never raise daughters to be honest. It only harms us. Men never believe what women say anyway. Sounds like she was right with her thought, but if she wants to succeed she'll need to get much smarter. Much much smarter.

You spelled 'doormat' wrongly there.

I suppose that is one way to stop women feeling aggrieved for wanting to be treated as equal to men: just convince them that they aren't worth it in the first place.

As I said below I didn't mean be a doormat. I meant be insidious not honest. Get the same result without baring yourself to harsh scrutiny

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 02/04/2023 13:48

I wonder what the reply would have been if she'd asked how much her pay would now be going up to if she hadn't worked hard....

ThinWomansBrain · 02/04/2023 13:50

promising a pay rise to low paid workers for months on end doesn't sound a great management style, even without it being the legal minimum.
your D shd start looking for a better employer.

MajorCarolDanvers · 02/04/2023 13:50

Good for her.

But she's clearly clever and capable so she should look for a better job that does value her.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 02/04/2023 13:51

As I said below I didn't mean be a doormat. I meant be insidious not honest. Get the same result without baring yourself to harsh scrutiny

OK, I just saw your later comment - but why don't people have to teach their sons that as well? If somebody is incapable of treating you fairly, with common decency and basic respect, that is not your failing.

MajorCarolDanvers · 02/04/2023 13:52

luckylavender · 02/04/2023 11:00

@Apricodonut - for many companies this is a big pay rise and they have no choice. Things are very difficult for businesses currently due to the same pressures we all face. They could off course lay people off rather than roll it out.

Whilst that's very true they shouldn't be dressing it up as a reward for hard work when they are only doing so because it's the law.

billy1966 · 02/04/2023 13:52

Absolutely not.

Her manager is a liar and a complete CF.

Your daughter is 100% in the right and she and you should be very proud of her.

I would absolutely hope my children would challenge such bullshit politely and firmly.

A pay rise is at the discretion of an employer.

A minimum wage increase is the law of the land and 100% obligatory.

Is the the manager so dim not to know the difference?🙄

Markasread · 02/04/2023 13:54

Well it needed saying but she needs to be in a job where she will get ahead for thinking like that. Otherwise she probably does need to know when not to speak as what will that have achieved.

Maybe she should be a union rep.

Windbeneathmybingowings · 02/04/2023 13:54

Queenofscones · 02/04/2023 12:26

Why not do both? Inform her colleagues, get everyone to join a union and leave for a better job. No need to brown-nose.

Show quote history

Because when I did this, for the benefit of us all, I was called trouble by the very people I was trying to help. They’ll see you as trouble at best, patronising at worst. The people who understand the concept already know and have decided to stay quiet, some people do not want to rock the boat or have drama, they just want to take a pay rise, from the gov or from their employer and not care who gave it to them.

of course she can do both but no good deed goes unpunished and it’ll be a way for the others to pour scorn.

Goodread1 · 02/04/2023 13:54

You daughter is correct

She could do a lot better than this crap job and crap company too,

She needs to use this situation incentive to better herself career wise, in every way possible, that she can capable of doing,

I don't know how old your daughter is,?

I know that certain jobs at that cause of nature of them attract young people working alongside college, often minimum wage