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Original poster

Was my daughter cheeky or not?

130 replies

Apricodonut · 02/04/2023 10:47

My daughter (early 20s) had a slight situation at work and is now worried sick that she was in the wrong.

Just for a bit of context- my daughter has been raised to be independent, confident and most of all honest. However, she has also been taught not to be forceful, domineering and cocky. She’s an intelligent young woman who is capable of standing up for what she believes is correct. I’m very proud of her but as her parent not blind to the fact she can be in the wrong too!

At her work, there was talk of a pay rise. Her manager had explicitly said there would be a pay rise for everyone as recognition for their hard work. It had been built up over the last few months to generate some excitement. Last week she had her individual meeting to discuss her pay rise and was told it was going up by certain amount. My daughter immediately realised this amount was actually the new minimum wage and that the pay rise was not due to hard work but due to the increase in the minimum wage. She said she wasn’t bothered by not getting a pay rise in the first place, but felt it was disingenuous to suggest the new pay was due to hard work as has been said rather than due to a new minimum wage. My daughter said she pointed this out, and that while she was happy with the pay she also wasnt happy that they were suggesting it was a generous pay increase rather than just the law. Her manager disagreed and said it was a pay rise for hard work. My daughter said this isn’t the first time something like this has happened and that she stood her ground that the situation was dishonest and misleading. She said it turned into a lengthy discussion about it but eventually it was left that she was unhappy with the situation as it was handled.

Just to clarify she is never rude or aggressive and is actually a strong debater, but sometimes she struggles to know when to leave something for the greater good even though it may be correct

She said her manager is clearly annoyed at her now and she regrets speaking up. She’s considering formally apologising but I thought it would be worthwhile getting some other opinions and thoughts on the situation first.

TIA x

OP posts:
Annoyingwurringnoise · 02/04/2023 11:22

Why do you think she might be in the wrong? Good for her.

arethereanyleftatall · 02/04/2023 11:22

Good for her

SnarkyBag · 02/04/2023 11:23

iamrageohtheresakitty · 02/04/2023 10:53

Why are you referring to a grown woman as "cheeky"? She's not a naughty child.
And it sounds like she's an assertive and intelligent woman, she's done nothing wrong here.

People use the term cheeky fucker on here all the time so describing the situation as potentially cheeky is fine in this context.

OP your daughter sounds brilliant good for her. Tell her not to apologise she did nothing wrong.

DiddyHeck · 02/04/2023 11:24

Surely this was just a completely normal conversation that most people would've had in the workplace?

Tell her to put it out of her mind. If her manager wants to sulk that's up to them.

Singularity82 · 02/04/2023 11:25

She was absolutely in the right. Her manager is the cheeky one. She should look for another job where she is valued and appreciated

Redebs · 02/04/2023 11:26

Apricodonut · 02/04/2023 10:47

My daughter (early 20s) had a slight situation at work and is now worried sick that she was in the wrong.

Just for a bit of context- my daughter has been raised to be independent, confident and most of all honest. However, she has also been taught not to be forceful, domineering and cocky. She’s an intelligent young woman who is capable of standing up for what she believes is correct. I’m very proud of her but as her parent not blind to the fact she can be in the wrong too!

At her work, there was talk of a pay rise. Her manager had explicitly said there would be a pay rise for everyone as recognition for their hard work. It had been built up over the last few months to generate some excitement. Last week she had her individual meeting to discuss her pay rise and was told it was going up by certain amount. My daughter immediately realised this amount was actually the new minimum wage and that the pay rise was not due to hard work but due to the increase in the minimum wage. She said she wasn’t bothered by not getting a pay rise in the first place, but felt it was disingenuous to suggest the new pay was due to hard work as has been said rather than due to a new minimum wage. My daughter said she pointed this out, and that while she was happy with the pay she also wasnt happy that they were suggesting it was a generous pay increase rather than just the law. Her manager disagreed and said it was a pay rise for hard work. My daughter said this isn’t the first time something like this has happened and that she stood her ground that the situation was dishonest and misleading. She said it turned into a lengthy discussion about it but eventually it was left that she was unhappy with the situation as it was handled.

Just to clarify she is never rude or aggressive and is actually a strong debater, but sometimes she struggles to know when to leave something for the greater good even though it may be correct

She said her manager is clearly annoyed at her now and she regrets speaking up. She’s considering formally apologising but I thought it would be worthwhile getting some other opinions and thoughts on the situation first.

TIA x

Get her to join a union. Sounds like she has a great sense of justice. Good on her, and well done for raising a woman with confidence and the willingness to speak up!

ilovesooty · 02/04/2023 11:28

She pointed out that the manager misrepresented the pay increase. She was right.

DisforDarkChocolate · 02/04/2023 11:30

She should not apologise. They were trying to pull a fast one and she caught it. Good on her.

She needs to move on to something that pays better and isn't with a company with such poor management.

Justmuddlingalong · 02/04/2023 11:30

Her manager made the pay increase sound like a thank you for their hard work. Your DD pointed out that it's nothing of the sort.
The manager obviously thought the staff were gullible enough to swallow that, but your DD pointed out that at least she isn't.
Now manager feels (quite rightly) embarrassed by the swizz.
Good on your DD, who owes no apology.

NoSquirrels · 02/04/2023 11:32

She wasn’t wrong, or cheeky, or anything negative. She mustn’t apologise.

Hopefully it’s a stop-gap job for an intelligent young women who’ll go far.

Phoebo · 02/04/2023 11:35

I was once like this! Well in some ways good on her for speaking out, although she probably should have done it more subtly and not pushed the point. She'll probably find out the hard way now that it isn't good to argue and get on the wrong side of your boss. It depends on the boss though, he might respect her more for it. I'd say it's done now so there's no point dwelling on it. Maybe the lesson is to remember which side your bread is buttered on (sad, but true)

Queenofscones · 02/04/2023 11:42

You've raised a confident and assertive young woman there. Congratulations. She has no need to be embarrassed or apologise, she's caught her manager out in an attempt to deceive staff. If I was her I'd print up copies of the new minimum wage from a government website and give them to all her colleagues and explain to everyone that they haven't had a pay rise for their hard work, the company has been forced into it.

Are they members of a union? This would be the next step.

myoldmansatrendydustman · 02/04/2023 11:43

Mangomingo · 02/04/2023 10:51

She’s young, intelligent, capable etc etc. Tell her to get out of this minimum wage job with a a crap company and don’t look back.

Exactly this.

And congratulations OP, on raising a savvy, assertive young lady

Notegoat · 02/04/2023 11:43

’she has also been taught not to be forceful, domineering and cocky.’

You may have pushed that a bit hard if she’s thinking about apologising for this. Those words are loaded. Confident is often seen as domineering if it’s coming from a woman, particularly a younger woman. She hasn’t done anything wrong. The manager is pissed off at being caught out.

user1471538283 · 02/04/2023 11:43

Your daughter was right. Her manager is pissed off because she pointed it out.

She isn't to apologise. She is to put her energy into getting a new job.

She sounds clever and bright!

PousseyNotMoira · 02/04/2023 11:47

iamrageohtheresakitty · 02/04/2023 10:53

Why are you referring to a grown woman as "cheeky"? She's not a naughty child.
And it sounds like she's an assertive and intelligent woman, she's done nothing wrong here.

This.

Your daughter sounds fabulous. Too many people, particularly women, just sit around and get shat on from a great height. Well done for raising a woman who doesn’t tolerate it.

Poshjock · 02/04/2023 11:49

I'm finding the debate on the word cheeky quite interesting actually. I think in this scenario it is a bit infantising and if your daughter feels that way then it's worth investigating why. As I see it she stated an absolute fact (the wage rise was required by law) and called out the boss on her (rightly held) opinion that dressing up the offer was disingenuous. He obviously disagreed and they debated the point but it doesn't take away that either of them have the right hold their position. Whether it's her youth or being female that has left her feeling like she was "cheeky" it's hard to say but she shouldn't and it's worth reinforcing this. She did nothing wrong.

Sadly her manager may try "punish" her for voicing her opinion, because she's young or she's a female or he's a dick. Hopefully he will reflect on the conversation and leave it, with a respect for your daughter - that would be the best outcome. It's worth having a conversation about how to deal with the fall out from this and understanding that the workplace can be "political" and when issues present she can decide whether to fight the fight, walk away or quiety ignore. Wisdom and maturity comes with knowing how to deal with the consequences of your choices.

Windbeneathmybingowings · 02/04/2023 11:50

My old workplace was like this and did the exact same thing with the minimum wage.

She is not BU at all but when surrounded by people with the same attitude in these kinds of workplaces, with people who are just grateful for what little extras they get, she might find herself doubting herself. I said the same and was told, just say thanks. (What do I have to be thankful for, it’s the LAW)

dottiedodah · 02/04/2023 11:50

Well shes in the right! Unless this is a temporary job ,I would encourage her to look elsewhere.Young people seem to be screwed over more than other groups I think .Good on her , dishonest employers need to be pulled up!

PousseyNotMoira · 02/04/2023 11:51

Poshjock · 02/04/2023 11:49

I'm finding the debate on the word cheeky quite interesting actually. I think in this scenario it is a bit infantising and if your daughter feels that way then it's worth investigating why. As I see it she stated an absolute fact (the wage rise was required by law) and called out the boss on her (rightly held) opinion that dressing up the offer was disingenuous. He obviously disagreed and they debated the point but it doesn't take away that either of them have the right hold their position. Whether it's her youth or being female that has left her feeling like she was "cheeky" it's hard to say but she shouldn't and it's worth reinforcing this. She did nothing wrong.

Sadly her manager may try "punish" her for voicing her opinion, because she's young or she's a female or he's a dick. Hopefully he will reflect on the conversation and leave it, with a respect for your daughter - that would be the best outcome. It's worth having a conversation about how to deal with the fall out from this and understanding that the workplace can be "political" and when issues present she can decide whether to fight the fight, walk away or quiety ignore. Wisdom and maturity comes with knowing how to deal with the consequences of your choices.

I think it’s also interesting that you assume her manager was a man.

YouJustDoYou · 02/04/2023 11:52

Good on your daughter. I never would've (or did) stand up for myself as a younger woman.

Fridayfreddie · 02/04/2023 11:53

Well done your daughter! I hope the rest of her colleagues also know about the fast one the managers were pulling so they can stand up to it together.

Windbeneathmybingowings · 02/04/2023 11:54

If I was her I'd print up copies of the new minimum wage from a government website and give them to all her colleagues and explain to everyone that they haven't had a pay rise for their hard work, the company has been forced into it.

this is exactly the sort of behaviour that will lead to “your face doesn’t fit” in a few months time. It’s not right but it happens. Better to leave, get an amazing job, and let everyone see you winning for having perseverance and integrity. Her workmates may already realise and not care. They probably just don’t want to get sacked or are really grateful for the bare minimum. OP’s daughter has options, perhaps they don’t.

this was all said to me when I kicked up a fuss about allowances for disability at my old workplace. I’ve now got a job that’s 10000 times better.

Sstitch · 02/04/2023 11:56

Good for her! My partner's recently had the same, a pay rise masked as being this amazing thing but really just the minimum. My boss used to say our wage had increased so our workload had to too... Even though it was just minimum wage. Hate manager's like this!

CantBeArsedOrAsked · 02/04/2023 11:57

How can we tell? It depends on how she said it, not necessarily on what she said.