Was my daughter cheeky or not?

[Apricodonut]

My daughter (early 20s) had a slight situation at work and is now worried sick that she was in the wrong.

Just for a bit of context- my daughter has been raised to be independent, confident and most of all honest. However, she has also been taught not to be forceful, domineering and cocky. She’s an intelligent young woman who is capable of standing up for what she believes is correct. I’m very proud of her but as her parent not blind to the fact she can be in the wrong too!

At her work, there was talk of a pay rise. Her manager had explicitly said there would be a pay rise for everyone as recognition for their hard work. It had been built up over the last few months to generate some excitement. Last week she had her individual meeting to discuss her pay rise and was told it was going up by certain amount. My daughter immediately realised this amount was actually the new minimum wage and that the pay rise was not due to hard work but due to the increase in the minimum wage. She said she wasn’t bothered by not getting a pay rise in the first place, but felt it was disingenuous to suggest the new pay was due to hard work as has been said rather than due to a new minimum wage. My daughter said she pointed this out, and that while she was happy with the pay she also wasnt happy that they were suggesting it was a generous pay increase rather than just the law. Her manager disagreed and said it was a pay rise for hard work. My daughter said this isn’t the first time something like this has happened and that she stood her ground that the situation was dishonest and misleading. She said it turned into a lengthy discussion about it but eventually it was left that she was unhappy with the situation as it was handled.

Just to clarify she is never rude or aggressive and is actually a strong debater, but sometimes she struggles to know when to leave something for the greater good even though it may be correct

She said her manager is clearly annoyed at her now and she regrets speaking up. She’s considering formally apologising but I thought it would be worthwhile getting some other opinions and thoughts on the situation first.

TIA x

It's fine, she has nothing to apologise for. I raised a similar situation at my job recently. A manager was going on about how generous the company was that they are giving us the coronation bank holiday off, that we should be grateful for the extra day. I mentioned that it isn't an extra day off because they have in fact, just cancelled a different day off that we usually have later in the year. The manager either knew this and was trying to bullshit or they didn't and felt silly, either way, it wasn't my problem and I'm pleased I made others aware.

Never raise daughters to be honest. It only harms us. Men never believe what women say anyway. Sounds like she was right with her thought, but if she wants to succeed she'll need to get much smarter. Much much smarter.

This is nonsense. By far the most successful women are the ones who take zero shit.

Well done her. I can imagine she is really stressing about it - I would have done too in my 20s. Now in my 40s I could not care less what anyone thinks of me or how offended they might be if I choose to fight my corner. Offer her reassurance ; she was in the right, she didn’t behave like a dick and the jobs you have in your 20s are rarely the ones you have later in life. It’s not the end of the world if her manager is put out. And one day , she will have zero f**ks to give about such liberty taking nonsense .

She's bright and assertive, good for her! I still cringe at the (many) times I've been made a mug of by crap employers as I'm too meek. Definitely as others have said encourage her to move on to somewhere better.

Ridiculous projection. Thank God there are women out there who ignore this sort of nonsense and raise good, honest, strong women.

If it was for hard work then it should be higher than nmw

Then they should have owned the reason for it and not pretended they were good employers who rewarded hard work, when it was actually foisted on them

Sounds like she rightly called them out on it. As long as she did not raise her voice or become abusive she has not done anything wrong.

I'm glad your daughter stood her ground. She has nothing to apologise imo.

She has no reason to apologise, she was right.

My work have tried to play into the generosity thing with it as well making a song a dance about how the lowest earners will get the biggest payrise this year of 6% so naturally everyone else understands why we will only get 1%. Firstly why were they being paid so low in the first place and secondly dont try and make me.feel like you are some kind of equality warriors when you are following the law 🙄🙄🙄

Do not let her apologise!!!

Crap managers don't like being challenged. I wouldn't have stood for this from a manager either. It's possible that the manager was just saying what they'd been told to by someone further up the hierarchy though.

If I were your daughter, I would be looking for a better employer.

how is this relevant in the slightest?
The daughter isn't arguing about getting the pay rise, just the way it was untruthfully presented as a reward and something the company was doing involuntarily

OP I think good on her for raising it! The manager should be ashamed not annoyed at her. I definitely don't think she should apologise, and if she feels she should it should only be if she felt she was overly rude in the way she made her point (which we can't comment on as nobody else was there) but not for the point itself. I suppose all she can do is make clear to everyone else that the pay rise is actually just the legal entitlement to minimum wage so that everyone else goes in with exactly the same question - okay so that's the minimum wage increase where's my actual pay rise?

Well done your dd. Please do not advise her to apologise. Hopefully she will be out of there soon!

Why not do both? Inform her colleagues, get everyone to join a union and leave for a better job. No need to brown-nose.

It's hard to know if you didn't hear the conversation. How old is she? You said early 20s, if she's under 23 and getting the full NMW she is getting more than the legal minimum if not then they aren't being generous.

Why?

NMW is all some employers can afford, or are you implying those on NMW don't work particularly hard?

Your DD wasn’t wrong to point out to the manager that she’s not a mug. But it is the kind of situation where it is best to smile politely and keep your mouth shut in front of the manager and then discuss with colleagues under your hat so the whole office is aware of the manager being a lying twat while looking for a new job. So she wasn’t being cheeky, but she’s landed herself in a pickle with a manager who is not going to treat her well from now on.

Good on her

Well done to your daughter.

Her manager was taking the piss. it wasn't a raise based on 'hard work' like he said. It was the legally required minimum raise to the new mandated minimum wage, whether you work hard or not.

Good for her! Hope she’s told all her colleagues!

Intelligent, assertive or bright people are allowed in minimum wage jobs you know. Do you and several others appear to think that retail, factory and service industry jobs should somehow be reserved for stupid or dull people?

Someone can be all the above without the MN-compulsory RG degree or indeed with only a handful of GCSEs. Not everyone has the skills or the inclination to aspire to the lofty heights of middle management.

She sounds like the kind of young woman I wish I had been!

No, she should not apologise. She caught her manager bullshitting them and called it out. Quite right too.