Government Behaviour Hub pushing zero tolerance in schools

[Usedtodance]

I've just been reading how the Behaviour Hub set up by the government has been pushing this idea of very strict behaviour policies and zero tolerance in schools. The sort rolled out by many of the academy chains. Does anyone know what the evidence base is for this?

The policies in many of these schools are highly restrictive - short lunch breaks, limited access to toilet breaks, consequences for minor mistakes. Many adults would find it stressful to be in an environment like this. I wonder if anyone has looked at the cost of these measures to the children in terms of their mental health, fostering independence and social skills etc.

Any insight, thoughts or links to research on this would be great.

Don't worry too much about this yet. The govt may like the idea but at the same time Ofsted (that govt organisation) is downgrading schools that have too many exclusions (ie that punish very bad behaviour). Left arm/right arm situation.

Hmm I see what you are saying 😀. A lot of the academies near us take this approach to behaviour/culture though.

Unless you have places for the kids that can't or don't want comply to comply it's a completely unenforceable and unworkable concept

Why should schools tolerate bad behaviour?

Of course they shouldn't. That should go without saying.

But zero tolerance and short lunchbreaks aren't inherently linked. And the issue of loo breaks is patching the symptom (bad behaviour in more enclosed/less supervised places) by removing the opportunity, not by actually tackling the behaviour

I've no idea of the evidence base, nor about what a behaviour hub is. However, my thoughts (going by what you've written) is that this is a good thing.

Kids deserve to be able to learn and unfortunately too often (round these parts anyway) others who won't behave, ruin it for them.

I'd love every school to have a zero tolerance approach tbh. Schools know who the troublemakers are I'm sure.

High standards in small things (things you might think minor, like uniform) lead to high standards in major things (like results)

High standards in small things (things you might think minor, like uniform) lead to high standards in major things (like results)

No it doesn't.

It allows schools a pretext to exclude quicker those who can't comply however they may have achieved.

Yes that may result in a quieter classroom generally, better for those who can comply.

However that excluded child also has a right to an education. The cheapest way to provide that education is currently in the mainstream sector. The SN sector has precious few spaces already.

Any kids whose with the money will pay for a private diagnosis (because whether we like it or not there is always a reason for kids behaviour) and medication. They will also fight for expensive SEN provision costing the government significantly more.

Those who are reliant on the NHS will end up shoved and excluded from every "zero tolerance" school. Pretty soon will have the scandal of the kids who aren't receiving their right to education.

Zero tolerance is actually very expensive and completely unworkable

I'm not advocating bad behaviour by any means. Just wondering why it is necessary to sweat the small stuff to such a degree. It must cause a lot of anxiety and distraction. Why not focus consequences etc on proper misbehaviour not mistakes like forgetting kit.

If I was worrying about if/when I could go to the toilet, whether I'd got my spare pen, and the colour of my socks it would make me much more stressed at work and much less able to concentrate on what I was meant to be doing/learning.

@Icedlatteplease that's a separate issue though. If a child has SEN and can't cope in a mainstream environment, then they should have access to specialist provision.

I wonder if it will lead to an increase in home schooling amongst those who can afford it...if all my local schools were like that and I had a child I don't feel could cope with it (due to mild SEN/anxiety etc.) I think I would opt for homeschooling (and paying extra for tutors/a way to do science etc.)

Horrific way to treat children.

Most who can't comply in a classroom have undiagnosed, untreated and unmanaged ADHD or significant mental health difficulties. I can walk into a classroom especially in deprived areas and almost instantly spot 3-4 undiagnosed and therefore untreated SEN. Funnily enough they are rarely compliant, frequently in and out of theur chair and often in hoodies (reduces sensory input) with an ear bud in (again reduces sensory input)

If you exclude you still have to educate by law. Educating excluded children is inherently more expensive regardless what the difficulty is.

I think constantly nit-picking over the small stuff will make some children think, 'fuck it' and behave REALLY badly, they're going to get into trouble anyway! Or even get anxiety because they'll get into trouble as their parents can't afford to keep them up to date on all the petty, expensive uniform rules.

I remember reading about a school that decided to ditch uniform. They thought if they didn't have to spend so much time policing minor uniform infractions, they'd have more actual teaching time. They are now rated outstanding.

Your already seeing a rise in funded expensives EOTAS packages from those with any money/capacity. Yes including private tutoring and or Internet schooling

I was just going to say there will probably be an increase in home schooling.

Ex teacher here. Bain of my life was not being allowed to let students go to the loo. It's a human right.

I know some kids might meet there to smoke, do drugs, plot terror attacks. ( partly joking) but put cctv up there and only let 1 out at a time.

But the government want obedient, robotic workers to oil the capitalist machine so they can make yet more profit for their mates whilst bleeding public services, like education, dry

However there's also another if pupils can use up rebellious energy against rules on things like uniforms, they won't need to escalate to get attention.

Read the things Naomi Fisher has to say she’s an educational psychologist / prior to having my second child I too would have said yep have strong discipline etc. then I had my DD2, and saw a whole different side when you have a child that doesn’t fit in that square rigid box the education and send provision is very broken!

Yeah I've never believed the rebellion theory.

What you are seeing is an increasing number of "good enough" kids. kids who are bright enough to achieve just enough to get them to the next stage of what they want to do and won't do an inch more. They are quite happy talking to their mates/watching their phone thank you very much. the input required to do better for doing betters sake is not worth the effort/reduction in happiness.

Often bright, polite and articulate, they are clearly capable but have actively made the choice they aren't going to do the work beyond a 6-7. It simply isn't worth the stress/unhappiness

One school where this a specific phenomenon has just bemoaned their poor English mock gcses. Their brightest students simply aren't attaining to capacity because they are chosing not too

Absolutely, Dr Fisher is amazing. Having a child who is currently not attending school, partly due to severe anxiety, more rules would be hell. The system is very very broken, and not the fault of teachers.

To all those saying about SEN, what about all the kids who don't have these needs? Why should the SEN kids trump the others? Genuinely curious.

Putting aside the issue of SEN children, how many people think that a zero tolerance approach is a good thing?

I mean, there is such a thing as bad behaviour without SEN coming into it.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha yeah cos that's gonna happen.

There is no capacity. You can’t exclude due to SEN (quite rightly) but you can’t get the help/support they need either. The system is breaking at the seams.

My NT but very quiet child goes to a school like this. She is truly miserable and has developed horrible anxiety about school. There must be a middle ground between anarchy and prison camp.

My daughter goes to an academy.

I have just removed her as she was being seriously bullied. The bullies have destroyed her reputation within her peer group. She's been threatened with violence and had several comments from wider group to kill herself.

Once a confident 13 year old, she is now a shadow of herself, too scared to leave the house alone and is so anxious, too scared to ever go back to that school.

The bullies, all of whom are already on final warnings for bad behaviour? All got a slap in the wrist and reminded on the school rules on bullying. My daughter is now expected to go back. The school sanctions do not work.

The school refuse to authorise her absence and so won't provide work for her, even though I have made it very clear I will facilitate her education, just not in that toxic environment.

The school have completely failed her, all other schools in the area are over subscribed, so what do I do?

Horrific?

Horrific is being neglected, abused, not having access to education full stop, not having access to food and water

Not being asked to be respectful of others, committed and motivated to learning

It's a simple matter of figures.

It is cheaper to provide inadequately for SEN within a mainstream classroom whatever the detriment of the NT kids who will probably do sufficiently adequately regardless.

Excluding kids provides the evidence that a child cannot get an adequate (legal term) education in a mainstream environment. Therefore the government has to provide a more expensive education.

Which has not keep pace with growing levels of ASD/ADHD/SEN.

(Growing levels of any SEN are to be expected genetics, better neonatal care and general medical care.)

Zero tolerance is unaffordable. You would actually have to provide for the level of SEN that exists.

I'm laughing at the idea of seperating SEN/mental health difficulties, when talking about persistent "bad" behaviour. NT kids can comply with a zero tolerance approach (albeit there may be a person cost)