Government Behaviour Hub pushing zero tolerance in schools

[Usedtodance]

I've just been reading how the Behaviour Hub set up by the government has been pushing this idea of very strict behaviour policies and zero tolerance in schools. The sort rolled out by many of the academy chains. Does anyone know what the evidence base is for this?

The policies in many of these schools are highly restrictive - short lunch breaks, limited access to toilet breaks, consequences for minor mistakes. Many adults would find it stressful to be in an environment like this. I wonder if anyone has looked at the cost of these measures to the children in terms of their mental health, fostering independence and social skills etc.

Any insight, thoughts or links to research on this would be great.

you are completely wrong in a number of ways - strict behaviour policies leads to higher educational achievement, that is blatantly obvious.

Could you point me to the evidence for this please as I’d like to do some reading up on this topic.

Wow just wow. We are never going to agree.

I haven't met one child in any school that persistently behaves badly because it is fun.

I'm really interested in this. Not the strict behaviour code but how schools are becoming super strict. My ds goes to a school where you get one warning (say for turning your head and saying something to your friend) and second warning is straight to withdrawal room - yet consistent bullying and fighting behaviour from other students gets a half day suspension and it carries on. I find it ridiculous that you can have to spend 5 lessons in the withdrawal room not learning because of minor infractions - yet really bad behaviour continues.

I used to run youth clubs, I know it's not the same as teaching (they choose to be there for one), but I ran youth clubs in rough areas with dc with lots of emotional and behavioural challenges. I didn't need to be strict to manage the behaviour, I built relationships and didn't use the power of being the adult to overrule. I always had rap music on (rap actually calms the nervous system, the beats soothe without them realising) and kept consistent boundaries by not having loads of petty rules and having that relationship with the YP. Schools aren't working at the moment and I do wonder what would happen if the government used all the experienced youth workers they decommissioned in Cameron days and put them in charge of how schools should be set up to manage behaviour/what behaviour even needs to be managed.

It is very easy, just look at the GCSE results in any school, before and after zero- tolerance is introduced

Consistent boundaries without petty rules and building relationships with pupils - yes, yes this is exactly what I want from a school and what I see the best teachers at my son’s school doing (to the best of their ability within the myriad petty rules they are expected to enforce).

Zero tolerance in schools is only a sticking plaster to try and alleviate the social problems that exist in society. Watch YouTube 'Living on the Breadline ' to see just how many children have really desperate home lives.

seriously? You have either met zero children, or have had the wool well and truly pulled over your eyes constantly.

Of course many children are going to behave badly if it is more fun than behaving well.

And for many years in many schools, it has been a lot more fun

How would I know it’s the behaviour policies and not other factors? What schools? There must be some controlled research you said it was blatantly obvious.

Parenting and instilling boundaries and discipline is being left to schools in many cases by which time it is often too late. Parenting, setting boundaries, teaching basic manners and respect should begin at home right from the very early years but in many cases it just is not happening because parents cannot be arsed and it is so much easier to give in for a quiet life. Hence by school age instead of being ready to learn and teachers being able to teach they are having to spend their time just trying to keep order because kids only want to do what they want and have never been taught to sit still and listen and to do what is asked of them. I also believe giving kids technology so young and parents always having a phone in their hand has contributed massively too. It is easier to blame teachers and schools though than take a good hard look at ourselves and our parenting skills though isn’t. I mean everything is always someone else fault it seems these days.

There have been a number of studies which focus on small things like uniform which conclude that strict policies around that seem to translate to higher results

I dont know if the research is designed in a way to elicit that result or how that translates to other countries where they may not have a uniform policy.

My preference would be a focus on actual behaviour, smaller schools, specialist and different settings.

I do also think the insistence that SEN children either cant benefit from, or shouldnt be asked/required to behave well is hugely insulting to anyone with different needs or with MH issues.

how many people think that a zero tolerance approach is a good thing?

It depends what they mean by that. Enforcjng arbitrary rules about uniform or expecting people to ask permission to go to the toilet, no, that's pointless. However, disruption, violence should be zero tolerance and bullying should mean expulsion.

That is horrific, your poor DD.

This is the problem. Fussing about uniforms etc but doing nothing about truly appalling behaviour. Bullying should mean instant exclusion, just as it would in a work environment if dealt with properly.

There have been a number of studies which focus on small things like uniform which conclude that strict policies around that seem to translate to higher results

Is there? Showing causation?

I don't see how that can be the case given the UK system has such bad outcomes compared to schools in other countries where there is no uniform at all.

I have no problem at all with schools being strict on proper disruptive, bullying, violent behaviour. I think that is essential for a good school.

It is the strictness on minor infractions that really don't undermine the school or detract from learning. This can cause a lot of stress for children (Sen or non Sen) who are generally well behaved but make a minor mistake.

I agree, I have seen it taken to far, but in principle, strict, properly upheld behaviour policies benefit learning for everyone

And I agree with the problem of inconsistencies with this. I.e really strong consequence for forgetting your pe kit, while bullying isn't properly dealt with.

Yep, the only bad mark against my daughter is a detention for not handing in her merit card? A whole hour detention.

dont get suckered into "controlled research" in education - you can't control for all factors, as you say, and the people who call educational research "research" are frequently without the skills or literacy to even define what "research" is!

Never the less, if you look across the board, at schools results before and after strict behaviour policies are introduced, then you will see an marked improvement in over 80% of schools

again, be very wary of international comparisons, as every country chooses who to put forward for comparing in a different way.

I’ve never understood why ‘strict’ supposedly equals ‘good’.

Most jobs don’t have ridiculously strict uniform standards and most jobs you can go to the loo when required.

I don’t know what they think they’re preparing people for.

I don't think it's parental.

Behaviour is much better today than in the 90s. That's a fact. Look at drug taking, pregnancy etc etc. Teenage attitudes have changed in this aspect for the better. I do think overall respect in the way teenagers talk/expect has changed negatively, but I don't think that's just parental. We live in a different world with social media, name brands and parents who grew up not having a lot giving a lot to their dc. They are more in charge now and that is the opposite to boundaries but it's time for schools to catch up.

Instead of hammering petty discipline home it's time for schools to reform. Have dc making more decisions, get them involved. Stats prove that teenagers making decisions and participating in their outcomes leads to better results.

Stop working on them and work with them.

No more petty rules, I'd do away with uniform and minor infractions. It's just causing conflict for conflicts sake. No more unnecessary power struggles.

Relationship building to manage classrooms and behaviour.

More natural consequences - you chuck a chair that dents a wall you stay after school to fill the dent, you then sand it and paint it. Detentions, points and isolations don't work. Do something that does. Oh and you apologise to the class, your actions have consequences and you scared people.

What schools are doing isn't working and there's only so much parent blaming they can do. Parenting has changed from back in the day and schools need to change too.

In most schools the approach is pretty much the same as when many parents would have gone to school

Show Respect
Follow the rules
Expect consequences if you don't

I am in my 50s and the approach is certainly no more draconian than when `I was in secondary (both state and independent)

we had a uniform that was checked
stood up when adults entered the room
had to get a toilet pass to leave a lesson
had report cards if you didn't do homework
lunchtime detention if no PE kit
etc etc

Please be careful about dismissing toilet visits as a small issue. Unmonitored toilet visits lead to hours of lost learning. Some kids asking to go every period of the day and wandering to and fro. Arranged meets in the toilet for vaping/ tik toking etc. Toilets then can become intimidating places for students and a place for on site truancy which has increased nationally since the Pandemic.

My sons are out of secondary school, thank god.

My observations are that a lot of my friend's daughters ended up with mental health problems in their teens (mainly eating disorders but also OCD, depression, anxiety, perfectionism) and whilst their homelife may have played a part too, it's my opinion that the pressure to conform and produce good results at school played a big part in this.

My personal experience with my boys was that they went into secondary as happy kids and were worn down by the nit-picking to the point where they hated school. My eldest used to beg me to home school him, which I couldn't do.

What I saw was kids who weren't bad, being made out to be bad because they'd forgotten their pen, or had the wrong shoes on, therefore turning them against the school and the teachers, whilst the truly disruptive, bullies, weren't dealt with effectively.

I don't blame the teachers for this, I blame the government.

You are literally plucking made up statistics out of thin air and presenting them as fact which is not helping your argument at all.