Government Behaviour Hub pushing zero tolerance in schools

[Usedtodance]

I've just been reading how the Behaviour Hub set up by the government has been pushing this idea of very strict behaviour policies and zero tolerance in schools. The sort rolled out by many of the academy chains. Does anyone know what the evidence base is for this?

The policies in many of these schools are highly restrictive - short lunch breaks, limited access to toilet breaks, consequences for minor mistakes. Many adults would find it stressful to be in an environment like this. I wonder if anyone has looked at the cost of these measures to the children in terms of their mental health, fostering independence and social skills etc.

Any insight, thoughts or links to research on this would be great.

League tables aren’t the only measure of a good school and can be manipulated by some of the poor practices some of the academies have been found to do.

Parental pressure, fear, the UK obsession with style over substance - who knows. But there have been examples of schools which have abandoned uniform and seen results improve in the UK.

The point I'm trying to make here is that there are better ways to do this and we should explore them. My DDs went to our local 6th form, which was completely non-uniform. No 'business suits', just the freedom to wear what you wanted as long as it was clean, not ripped and free of offensive language. Good results, good behaviour all round. And no, our town isn't wealthy and leafy by any means.

So what is the measure of a good school?

"But there have been examples of schools which have abandoned uniform and seen results improve in the UK."
So why haven't more schools done this? The main thing schools care about is improving results, if having no uniform was an easy way to do this, you'd think more schools would do it.

For me the measure of a good school is a caring environment where children achieve the best outcome for their own individual circumstances. Where all members of the school community are treated fairly and with respect. Surely the best measure is parental and young persons feedback not league tables.

Re the uniform thing, the argument is that a uniform is a leveller and can be cost effective. I get that, but apply the policy flexibly and as long as the uniform is “good enough” then don’t get too upset with minor infractions.

I never said it was an easy way to do this. There isn't an easy way to fix the UK system. Uniform is a symptom, not a cause.

The UK education system is obsessed with data, metrics and appearances. There's an old saying: you don't fatten a pig by weighing it. All we do is weigh the pig.

• We don't respect teachers. We pay them badly, overload them with work and give parents and bureaucracy power over them rather than trusting them to do their work.
• We think a pretty uniform equals good teaching.
• We don't fund education - it's 2023 and adjusting for inflation we still haven't returned to 2010 per child funding levels. You get what you pay for.
• We focus on academics and do not recognise that there are many children whose talents do not lie in this direction - and we do nothing to develop them.

We should be looking at what other countries are doing and see what we can learn - taking into account that we are culturally a Western European country. I'm reluctant to recommend more reform after the Great Gove Cockup, but equally we can't go on like this.

Schools should be doing and publishing parent surveys (parent view is good but doesn’t ask all the right questions) every year not just when an ofsted is due.

Our school is very strict on the tiniest little infraction
Eg the kids have to be there by 8.28 am
have exactly the right uniform
exactly the right equipment
plus lots of other things
detentions are handed out far too easily and are hugely counterproductive ( in my opinion)

and the kids ? Well they’re currently running a competition amongst themselves to see who can get the highest number of detentions

So the trend has been and still is to get stricter and stricter and stricter - and things are not getting better.

What was that thing Albert Einstein said about the definition of insanity?

So the solution to kids not wearing proper uniform is to not have uniform at all, so they can't get in trouble for not wearing it?

Indeed - that is exactly the solution.

School uniform becomes an unnecessary focus for conflict when teachers should be focussing on good teaching and good child safeguarding from bullying.

If they is no school uniform, then teachers can concentrate on what they are there for and trained for - teaching.

How is it that those of my children who went to schools with no uniform have a string of degrees and post-graduate qualifications? How did the absence of uniform hold their education back?

well, just off the top of my head, some of the countries I have come across where there is the worst reputations for poor behaviour in schools, USA/ Spain/China/ Australia, and some of the systems with the harshest regimes, particularly when it comes to failing and having to resit a year Germany/Japan. Most countries do not require teachers to mark books, and of course, in many countries, a child turning up to school without a pen won't be allowed onto the premises

The small stuff, as you describe it, is very disruptive.The sanctions for small mistakes are not comparable to sanctions in a workplace

This. I work in a "kind" PRU that takes on a lot of kids who've fallen foul of this kind of system in schools. They're almost all much happier and able to focus in our environment which is small, has access to animals and creative arts and has a strong ethos of kindness, talking and sharing feelings. It ain't rocket science.

Begin cynicism But punitive environments with harsh rules and no breaks are cheaper to roll out en masse. Which is convenient as we have very few teachers right now and can't keep the ones we have end cynicism

You have summed it all up neatly pointythings.

but things do get A LOT better when a school becomes stricter, as long as it doesn't become extreme.

And as to uniform or not, well I have taught in schools with uniform and schools without uniform ,and there are more arguments about clothing in schools without uniform, between staff and students, and between students and students

@Nimbostratus100 thank you. I'm not sure that China or the US are models we want to follow in any way, and from what I know, the Australian system isn't unlike the British one. I'm very on the fence about the practice of making students repeat a year - in my experience of the Dutch system, students do worse in the repeat year than they did originally, but on the other hand letting someone move on when they haven't got a solid foundation to build on isn't good either. A friend of mine had to repeat Year 12 by the skin of her teeth (it's done purely on numbers in the Netherlands) and she did very well when she got to Yr 13, but she really hated it and was quite disaffected with school.

I'm 100% with you on your hatred of SLANT. It's ridiculous.

I really feel for you. Same here. The head teacher said some kids have a (police) charge sheet as long as his arm and he cannot remove them from the school regardless of what they get up to. He just has to try to keep the rest of the pupils safe from violence. It’s failing everyone, and is truly terrible. The bullies have all the rights and good kids have none. It’s just so fuckedup

Well it isn't as strict as when I was at school in the 50s and 60s. I remember the nuns standing a boy on a desk and turning his long trousers into shorts as he wasn't following the uniform rules. Can't imagine schools doing that now.

Yes that may result in a quieter classroom generally, better for those who can comply.

It also allows those who want to work and learn to do so, too much teacher time is wasted on those who don't want to learn and are supported by their idiot breeders.

@Nimbostratus100 I actually have nothing against strict - but be strict where you're going to achieve something. Detentions over socks achieve nothing. Chatting in class is completely different. My mum was a teacher in the Netherlands and disruptive behaviour was something she never tolerated. The school backed that up. Be tough on bullying, be tough on disruption, if parents moan about their precious darlings getting detention for chatting in class - tough.

But equally, support ND kids, allow kids to breathe and be human - so no stupid rules about silent corridors for the sake of it. The rules should be there for a clear and obvious reason. The current drive towards ever stricter leads to rules which are petty for the sake of being petty.

@ancientgran well, none of that nonsense would have been necessary if there hadn't been a uniform. My parents went to school in the '50s in Holland. No uniform, no nuns, no nonsense.

Also no corporal punishment - the Dutch abolished it in schools in 1835.

are supported by their idiot breeders.

Wow! I really hope you aren’t a teacher. What a disgraceful thing to say.

There are a lot of useless parents nowadays, who do little to no actual parenting, expect schools to do it for them. Kids getting to school age unable to use knives and forks, tell the time, sit at a table, speak coherently, even wipe their own arse in some cases. This is not acceptable and should not be tolerated, there's no reason for it and it only causes more and more problems the longer it is allowed to go on.

I agree with you, I have definitely seen schools take strictness too far, so that it becomes an obstruction to relationships and education.

Detention for red writing on the sole of a black sock! ridiculous. just pretend not to notice, why would you want to cause an issue, the boy clearly thought it would be safely covered by his shoe all day, it isn't open defiance, is it.

Needing permission to take off your blazer on a hot day - I disagree totally that we have the right to enforce the wearing of heavy clothing in heat

Sitting up so straight it hurts your neck! I didn't join teaching to hurt children

Strictness is needed, but within reason!

@Florenz I agree with you, but so much of that is tied into the way our society is structured. You see far less of this in societies where socioeconomic inequality is less. The problems in the education system are also a symptom - of an utterly dysfunctional society where inequality means whole swathes of people feel that no matter what they do, they will get nowhere. So they give up trying. Add to that the way support systems have been cut away in the past 13 years (Sure Start, anyone?) and you have a recipe for disaster.