People assuming new fathers are a bit useless

[AlmostaMamma]

Has anyone else noticed this?

I’m currently extremely pregnant and the comments from friends/family/acquaintances/colleagues regarding having a newborn have been fascinating.

“You’ll want to batch cook, as you won’t be able to cook anything for the first few weeks.”

“Make sure you stock up on XYZ, as you won’t be feeling up to doing any laundry.”

“You won’t be feeling up to any housework, but you’ll be too tired to notice the mess.”

Also lots of stuff about having to deal with everything for the newborn by myself.

I have a husband. He’s a competent adult (I wouldn’t have married him otherwise) who is capable of household chores and generally does more of them than I do. This will not change post birth. And, apart from me being the one who breastfeeds, we’re going to be splitting infant care pretty evenly.

It’s 2023, so presumably this isn’t a massively unusual state of affairs. So why do people say this nonsense? It was mildly amusing to begin with, but it’s starting to make me tetchy.

Thank you, @DappledThings. Precisely this.

I’m going to copy/paste a previous response that covers this.

“Saying both parents will be exhausted and should prepare for it (great advice) is entirely different from assuming the man can’t cook or do laundry, so the woman should prepare accordingly.”

Honestly, this on repeat to all the people saying it’s good advice. We are preparing for most eventualities (we’re people who like a plan), while being cognisant of the fact that we can’t plan for everything.

Advice to batch cook or stock up on stuff is great advice and very welcome. It’s the ‘as he obviously won’t be able to do XYZ’ and ‘can he do laundry properly’ that has accompanied said advice that’s irritating.

And DH’s paternity leave is no more a holiday than my maternity leave.

At no point have I proposed that they are intentionally trying to piss me off, so unclear as to the relevance of that. They are making unsolicited, inaccurate statements grounded in sexism and the expectation of male incompetence. It’s not all they can really do - they could quite easily not unsolicited, inaccurate statements grounded in sexism.

I respond to them much as I’ve responded to statements of that kind on this thread. Again, nothing I’ve posted indicates I haven’t.

@AlmostaMamma

How do they respond when you tell them their assumptions are sexist?

I really don't think people mean to offend you. You seem quite angry about it all. Maybe just crack on with your equal parenting and leave everyone else to it?

I think it will be easy to care for a newborn with two adults and that three months would be fun and we would have felt we were on holiday and probably gone on holiday and generally had a ball. A year with both parents at home with a baby definitely sounds like a holiday to me. I have a considerably larger family though and dh was never able to take that sort of time off.

@Babyboomtastic and @Brefugee You both sound fab! 😂

@Sweenytoddler Will do! DH is excellent with babies (much better than me) and kids. We’ve had very in depth conversations as to how childcare will be handled and, while there’s going to be stuff we haven’t thought of, hopefully we’ve covered off most eventualities. Fingers crossed. 😊

I really don't think people mean to offend you. You seem quite angry about it all. Maybe just crack on with your equal parenting and leave everyone else to it?

Shouldn't we all be angry that lazy, sexist stereotyping still gets spouted and therefore perpetuates lazy, sexist behaviour from some men and disempowers some women from challenging it?

In our household the majority of duties for newborn fell to me as I was ebf. Dh had to attempt to support via other ways but couldn't possibly match up to the 24 hour job I had in the early days.

Our baby also had cows milk allergy reflux and just refused to sleep. This meant she was attached to me most of the time and wanted me most of the time for a long time unless we sorted the issues/she grew out of the issues. This are very common problems so it does depend on the baby imo

Now that dd is older dh can easily match what I do.

Shouldn't we all be angry that lazy, sexist stereotyping still gets spouted and therefore perpetuates lazy, sexist behaviour from some men and disempowers some women from challenging it?

exactly the point. "hahah useless men, eh, can't live with 'em, can't kill 'em and bury 'em in the garden can't live without 'em"

Different people have responded differently. Generally sheepishness, the occasional ‘you’ll see’.

Again, I never said they were trying to offend me. You don’t appear to be reading what I’m writing. Nobody else thinks I sound angry. This has been a pleasant and interesting thread. I will crack on with equal parenting - a post on MN about something that irritates me isn’t going to get in the way of that.

I don’t think we should. It’s every woman for herself. Some women are entirely happy with it and don’t want other angry women weighing in on their behalf.

I think it will be easy to care for a newborn with two adults

We hope so.

A year with both parents at home with a baby definitely sounds like a holiday to me.

What are you talking about?

Also I don't like minimising how important maternity leave is by suggesting paternity is equally important. It is important but a woman does very often have birth injuries and hormones to get through in addition to just 'having a baby appear' in the house. Not always but I would not like to minimise the differences because I personally think I had it much harder than dh with the arrival of a newborn despite him being happy to help. Not feeling sorry for myself it was what it was.

@Blossomtoes Precisely.

Why the odd assumption that all women hate doing the majority of household tasks and childcare and that they are desperate for their husbands to take charge and put a wash load on? I love it and don't want my husband to do it. He is perfectly capable, but I'm happy taking charge of it and so is he.

The OP has posted because she knows she'll get tons of responses from others hollering about the hideous sexism and how offensive it all is and how we must not take a stand for any of it.

Fact is...only on Mumsnet. People don't spout this stuff in real life.

And YES. I have a very hands-on partner and we are equal in every possible way.

I’m not disputing that any of this is common. However, none of the things you’ve said would make a male partner incapable of doing laundry or vacuuming. Which is what the post is about.

Maternity leave with another adult to do half the care is not onerous. Many of the people responding have multiple children and jobs, and many more would never have had the option of sitting as a couple with their baby for weeks on end. Honestly people are just trying to think of something to pass on that helped them and something to say about your pregnancy. It’s infinitely preferable imo to birth stories.

Tbf, we had 6 m with both of us mostly around (i went back 1-2 day a week at 3m).

It was like a holiday, but that's because I find newborns easy and there were two of us. I went from 80 hour weeks and long commutes, to daily cake trips and afternoon naps. Yes there was broken sleep, but I'd been used to surviving on very little for years, and we shared it. It was bliss.

So many day trips, days spent playing board games, a holiday, weekends away.

It was only like that for us because we took leave concurrently.

I’ve made no such assumptions. I haven’t proposed how other couples should divide their domestic labour. I have, in fact, categorically stated that it’s none of my business. I don’t care.

You appear determined to find something to object to here. You’re scrambling, at this point.

And DH’s paternity leave is no more a holiday than my maternity leave.

I'd agree if he was on paternity leave while you were at work. 3 months where both of you are off does sound like a holiday (not a lounging on the beach relaxing kind of holiday but fun all the same). Which isn't remotely a criticism or a judgement, it sounds wonderful to have that chunk of time all together. And it sounds like it will be over the next few months, if you're quite pregnant now, so hopefully nice weather. I hope it's lovely for you both!

@AlmostaMamma You don't care...but you've posted an entire thread about it?

Odd.

As I said - how do these people in real life respond when you tell them their views are sexist?

Our daughter was around six weeks old when she came home, she was premature, so essentially a brand new newborn with her corrected age. We were both home for the first six weeks, it was anything but easy.

And that's fine, if you want to do all the chores and continue to do so when you have a newborn and it's harder to keep on top of everything. Knock yourself out. But the assumption that these are all women's jobs should absolutely be challenged. It's mind-boggling to me that that is still an assumption.

And yes these conversations happen in real life. I've been in plenty where other mothers have said how annoying it is that they have to do every bedtime with school age children because their husbands just can't manage it but what can you do eh? That's men for you.

You want to do every bedtime, no problem. But letting the idea that it's normal for men not to be able to go unchallenged is absurd

Yes, it’s harder for the woman in every way. Which is why maternity leave is much longer than paternity leave.

However, referring to paternity leave as a ‘holiday’ and regarding three months leave is excessive minimises the contributions of the male partner, which in turn contributes to the state of affairs where the mother does all the heavy lifting. Paternity leave is extremely important, in my opinion.

@DappledThings So challenge them then? And then...just get on with parenting?

That sounds delightful. I hope it’s like that for us!

@TomeTome keeps talking about both parents being home for a year, though. I have no idea where that’s come from.