People assuming new fathers are a bit useless

[AlmostaMamma]

Has anyone else noticed this?

I’m currently extremely pregnant and the comments from friends/family/acquaintances/colleagues regarding having a newborn have been fascinating.

“You’ll want to batch cook, as you won’t be able to cook anything for the first few weeks.”

“Make sure you stock up on XYZ, as you won’t be feeling up to doing any laundry.”

“You won’t be feeling up to any housework, but you’ll be too tired to notice the mess.”

Also lots of stuff about having to deal with everything for the newborn by myself.

I have a husband. He’s a competent adult (I wouldn’t have married him otherwise) who is capable of household chores and generally does more of them than I do. This will not change post birth. And, apart from me being the one who breastfeeds, we’re going to be splitting infant care pretty evenly.

It’s 2023, so presumably this isn’t a massively unusual state of affairs. So why do people say this nonsense? It was mildly amusing to begin with, but it’s starting to make me tetchy.

What you plan to happen and what actually will could end up being quite different. You might get on well with breastfeeding, you might not. Even if you end up doing all the night feeds, it doesn't mean your dh will have a peaceful night's sleep if in the same room. That could leave you both tired and irritable next day with a baby to look after and arguing over sleep. You might need time to heal after the birth and that might impact what you can do other than care for yourself and baby. It can be a big difference from going from a 50:50 share of chores to doing everything on little sleep. If baby has colic or is a contact napper it can zap you of what little energy you have.

I'd ignore the comments implying your dh will be useless but I would be realistic and do whatever you can to make the first few weeks easier. So if either of you can make the time to batch cook now I would do. There's absolutely no harm on stocking up your freezer so you can just defrost evening meals or at least reduce the prep time.

With your dh having 12 weeks off that will make a world of difference, my dh could only take 2 weeks when we had our eldest, I had a section and she was a tiny baby with a whole host of feeding issues. It was tough. With our 3rd child he took 12 weeks, did almost all the night feeds and she was sleeping through once he went back to work. It was a heck of a lot easier, he went back to bed after dropping our eldest to school and son to nursery and I cracked on after having full 7 hours sleep.

My dh has always been a hands on dad, him working full time was never used as an excuse not to do night wake ups with any of our three children, even then we struggled with competitive tiredness with the first child. We talked it out and came up with a routine from there and cracked on.

I’d forgotten about competitive tiredness😂 Happens to the best of us with what we think are rock solid relationships. The 3am whispered anger discussions are the best when you can look back and laugh, but not at the time. OP, you’ll know this when it comes and I swear you won’t give a flying anything about whether your husband was or is, a competent housekeeper/cook in these moments- you’ll probably just want him to get out of your face/go away/stop trying to nap when you’re clearly more tired than him etc, etc.

If this is unsolicited advice, then so be it, it’s the reality of what’s to come and I think you’re slightly worried- understandably- about possible changes coming, hence why you’ve posted this. I wish more prenatal classes were honest in their support around how your relationship will adjust, instead of painting a romanticised view of parenting where you both have a giggle about how to change a nappy.

That’s all certainly possible. However, all that doesn’t really have anything to do with what I posted about. Which is the assumption that while we are dealing with a newborn he can’t or won’t do basic chores like laundry. He can, does and will.

Whether or not competitive tiredness will be an issue is something we’ll have to wait and see, and deal with as best we can.

He can, does and will.

Or he gets the stick!

Nope. There is no need for me to do anything at all to ensure my husband does his share of domestic labour. He does it because that’s who he is and the nature of our relationship.

Your comments are getting increasingly strange.

You'll be fine @AlmostaMamma. Sometimes you'll be really tired and juggling kids and home and a career is quite hard work but it's definitely easier if you and your partner are a team.

Sometimes you likely will both feel like you are badly off vs the other but I'm sure you'll figure it out and find a balance. When I read your OP I thought maybe you'd misunderstood and people were talking about you collectively but with your updates it's clear you've encountered some of the women who think no men are capable at managing anything domestic. Just ignore them. Most people are well aware it's not true. It is a thing to an extent. My best example is I & several colleagues travelled regularly with work (2 weeks in every 8 or so) when a number of us had kids who were between 1 & 5 when we started and 3 & 7 when covid hit. The two women had someone ask at least once every trip who would look after the kids. No one ever asked the men. It's indicative of the extent to which it's just assumed mums look after the kids.

"instead of painting a romanticised view of parenting where you both have a giggle about how to change a nappy"

This 'romanticised view' has literally been my experience though... The only in which my relationship has suffered is it's difficult to find time to have sex. Other than that, it's better than ever. Maybe it will be the same for OP! Maybe not. But saying parenting will definitely be shit for every relationship - it's just not necessarily true.

I remember having similar conversations before my first was born, and people were all eye rolling, making similar comments as here to the OP 'just you wait' etc. I got equally frustrated by thr assumptions of incompetence and an unequal setup. We had a similar plan with a good period of concurrent leave.

It panned out exactly how I anticipated with my equal and competent husband. We had done zero batch cooking, but there was no need. The house was actually tidier than before because they were two of us and only one baby. We shared the feeding (formula) so neither of us were particularly tired. We didn't get some miracle child who would be put down, we used slings a lot of instead. A lot of Parenthood I've found challenging at times, but not those first few months. One parent with a newborn had its moments, but two we didn't find difficult.

Our second, we had similar leave etc, but I accidentally ended up EBF. We were still more equal than most families I know, but the balance was far more difficult, more fell to me, because the nights largely fell to me (and husband was also dealing with toddler at night), and the baby developed a less equal bond. Even now 3 years on, thats still evident. However, with 2 of us around, even with a quite 'high needs' colicky baby, it was a doddle. For us, even with a non sleeping colicky baby, newborn was the least difficult and least intense stage for us. Perceptions on this clearly vary though!

The sad thing is a lot of men aren't very involved though. Out of a class of 30 kids, my husband is the only man on the class WhatsApp. He's the only man that takes an interest in homework. The only man that does the majority of the school runs. Its quite sad tbh.

There's no reason it can't be fully equal (though if you can manage it with breastfeeding you are exceptionally lucky). Don't set your bar by others but by what is right for your relationship.

Ps: I lived my babies first years. It was a wonderful time, the best of my life.

What a lovely comment. I’m glad that’s how things panned out and I very much hope for the same. Thanks for sharing.

Also lovely to read. And I certainly hope for a similar experience.

Thank you @whatkatydid2013.

I think you probably do understand that the reason people say this is because many family set-ups still follow a very traditional pattern of the woman doing the lions' share of childcare and housework. Whether this is right or wrong is another debate.

You have to be aware that your circumstances (e.g. that your husband has 12 weeks leave, that you have a cleaner, that you can afford to live on one wage) means that it probably is more possible for you to have an equal responsibility for tasks.

You strike me as a person who loves a plan. You are very firm in your opinion of your husband and insistent that it probably won't change. Yes, many fathers are useless, but your equal parenting plan isn't exactly groundbreaking either. Many men are hands on, maybe they just aren't in the families that you choose to mix with? I wonder if you are actually a bit anxious about how things may change and the point of this post is not just about what these people are saying, but about seeking confirmation that your husband is indeed a domestic god and everything is going to be fair and lovely? You respond very favourably to people who tell you what you want to hear.

The 'just you wait' people always get a hard time for being negative by prospective parents, but it's just because their suggestions are rooted in actual experience, which you don't yet have.

Maybe just see how you get on. Parenting is a minefield.

Yes, many fathers are useless, but your equal parenting plan isn't exactly groundbreaking either
Indeed, which was rather OP's point I think. That what she is expecting from her husband isn't groundbreaking or certainly shouldn't be.

She doesn't sound anxious to me, just pissed off that so many people still think woman being busy with baby = all other domestic tasks go to shit. Rather than equal split.

@DappledThings The thing is, maybe these people don't realise that her husband has 12 weeks leave? Of course it's going to be easier if he's at home for this time. The reality for many families is that the dad goes back to work after 2 weeks and the mum is at home with the baby.

From the OP:
And, yup, some of these women (including the laundry questioner) know he’s going to be home for three months.
It's still about the basic principle of other people assuming OP has prime responsibility for laundry, cooking, cleaning etc and therefore if she is otherwise engaged they will automatically go to shit because heaven forfend the other adult continues to do their fair share. It shouldn't be an unusual expectation that the other adult does this. Yes both will be tired and probably there will be less cleaning and easier cooking and the batch cooking advice is sensible (although we never did it, DH did and still does all our cooking and fitted that round everything else) but what she's been irked by is the assumption that there is effectively only one competent and fair adult in the household.

I think it’s odd that you think adding someone to your life who needs all their needs met 24/7, post birth physical and mental trauma, and a huge change in you as a human and DON’T think it might be helpful to put some food in the freezer and do a good deep clean of your home. Of course your husband can step up just as you can but since you are going to be the more dependent one perhaps people are trying to give you a heads up that you might be the one most disadvantaged when things get grotty at home (and they will). That said three months paternity leave is humongous and sounds like a holiday to me.

That said three months paternity leave is humongous and sounds like a holiday to me.

But, presumably, 12 months maternity leave doesn’t sound ‘humongous’ or ‘like a holiday’ to you? Why is that, do you think?

@DappledThings

I get that, but I don't think people are intentionally trying to piss the OP off about the expected roles of each parent? I assume that they are just speaking from their own experience, which is all they can really do.

I'd be interested to hear how the OP responds to said comments. Why don't you just tell people they are annoying you if it irks you so much?

Quite!

My FIL told my husband that he shouldn't spend all of his 6m paternity leave playing computer games. Um no, he'll be looking a toddler and newborn with me...

Don't get me wrong, with 2 of us it was pretty chilled, but it was the same for both of us.

Its a lot easier I think for a lot of women to assume that ken are a bit incompetent domestically and with children because otherwise it challenges the very nature of their partnership. Expect little and you wont be disappointed etc...

If DH was there? i fixed them with an icy stare and said "stop insulting him, he can do all of that"

If he wasn't there i used to fix them with an icy stare and said things like "i think you should apologise to me for calling me an idiot that would marry a useless husband"

etc

but everyone knows i'm gobby

Men, not Ken. I mean Ken might be incompetent for all I know, but I'm not going to assume 😜

also with us it was amazing to see the "oh you wait" idiots (who all knew that a) i'm not maternal and our plan was 6months off for me and him doing the parental leave - it didn't work out like that for reasons beyond our control) but anyway, after baby #2 he took over the last 18 months of the allowed 3 years parental leave and he was excellent at it with 2 under 4.

Good luck, OP, you'll be fine as long as DH doesn't have a personality transplant

Two parents to care for one baby for 12 months? Well yes that sounds like a holiday. Most of us work far more than that.

Not RTFT but please come back and update us in a year - that's not sacarsam, I'm interested to know who it works out for you.

I thought me and DH were living fairly equally pre children. The balance hugely tipped towards me being the primary parent (EBF) and all the housework with DH working long hours and often back after baby was asleep.

Dh was not confident with babies ( many men seem not to be) he would be stressed taking them out. Baby then didn't take a bottle. I did all the nights. When/if you go back to work this often carries on so I still did all the nights because 1yo was still breastfeeding and wouldn't settle for dh.
He is much better now they are school age and does most drop offs as he WFH, but it's taken years for the balance to tip back ( and I still take on all the mental load)

Of I could do it all again I would have some serious conversations about how we will make it all work. Try and find friends with babies/ toddlers to spend time with and make DH interact with kids to get experience. Leave baby with him more on weekends and regain some freedom/ let him bond/ learn.

Two parents aren’t caring for the baby for 12 months, though. That’s not the situation.

A mother is taking standard maternity (that most of us take) and a father is taking three months. You’ve referred to the three months paternity leave as humongous and a holiday. I’m asking if you think standard maternity leave is also humongous and a holiday.