Page 7 | People assuming new fathers are a bit useless

AlmostaMamma · 2023-03-27T22:27:49+00:00

Has anyone else noticed this? I’m currently extremely pregnant and the comments from friends/family/acquaintances/colleagues regarding having a newborn have been fascinating. “You’ll want to batch cook, as you won’t be able to cook anything for the first few weeks.” “Make sure you stock up on XYZ, as you won’t be feeling up to doing any laundry.” “You won’t be feeling up to any housework, but you’ll be too tired to notice the mess.” Also lots of stuff about having to deal with everything for the newborn by myself. I have a husband. He’s a competent adult (I wouldn’t have married him otherwise) who is capable of household chores and generally does more of them than I do. This will not change post birth. And, apart from me being the one who breastfeeds, we’re going to be splitting infant care pretty evenly. It’s 2023, so presumably this isn’t a massively unusual state of affairs. So why do people say this nonsense? It was mildly amusing to begin with, but it’s starting to make me tetchy.

Cinnamon23 · 28/03/2023 15:22

Seems to be a common trope, similar to men being asked if they’re ‘babysitting’ when out with their baby. 🙄

He’s fucking parenting.

2023a · 28/03/2023 15:24

bumblebee1401 · 28/03/2023 15:10

"While it’s certainly not impossible that he will suddenly have a complete change in personality, beliefs and natural inclinations, I find it very unlikely."

But this quote just proves that you have no idea how far parenting can impact both fathers and mothers. It's a massive, massive life change. I know you think you know what it's going to be like, but you don't. Just be open minded and wait and see. People, including me, are speaking from experience here.

Just because your husband is a good partner, it doesn't mean he's going to be a good dad. It really doesn't!

Parenthood doesn’t make anyone a raving misogynist, which is what that quote responds to.

And nobody (male or female) knows if they’re going to be a good parent until they parent. How is that relevant to this conversation?

Original poster

AlmostaMamma · 28/03/2023 15:26

Blossomtoes · 28/03/2023 15:11

We plan on enjoying it, but thank you

Very old military saying “No plan survives contact with the enemy”. Let us know how it goes.

This made me laugh! 😂 I promise to come back in six months and provide an honest update. 😊

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EssexMamisoa · 28/03/2023 15:51

AlmostaMamma · 28/03/2023 15:17

Thats all totally fair! I’m going to copy/paste one of my comments from above, as I think it explains my position a bit.

Saying both parents will be exhausted and should prepare for it (great advice) is entirely different from assuming the man can’t cook or do laundry, so the woman should prepare accordingly.

Honestly, this on repeat to all the people saying it’s good advice. We are preparing for most eventualities (we’re people who like a plan), while being cognisant of the fact that we can’t plan for everything.

Advice to batch cook or stock up on stuff is great advice and very welcome. It’s the ‘as he obviously won’t be able to do XYZ’ and ‘can he do laundry properly’ that has accompanied said advice that’s irritating.

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It’s the ‘as he obviously won’t be able to do XYZ’ and ‘can he do laundry properly’ that has accompanied said advice that’s irritating.
Completely agree super annoying and incorrect!!

Surroundedbyfools · 28/03/2023 16:05

Tbf these were all worthwhile suggestions to me as unfortunately my DH is a lazy fucker. I think in general society sets the bar so low for dads that literally if they do anything at all it’s a big woop

Lizzt2007 · 28/03/2023 16:07

Mixkle · 28/03/2023 14:53

”This will not change post birth.”

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

OP I sincerely wish you the best of luck and hope your husband doesn’t do what mine did, which is transform overnight when he became a father, from someone who shared all chores equally, into a workaholic who sees housework and childcare as women’s work.

Even if the dad wants to look after the baby, if you are breastfeeding, the baby will want you not him. Whenever Dh tried to do bedtime the baby would scream with fury, at 2am this is not fun and we soon gave up any idea of DH doing bedtimes.

I have spent the last decade socialising mostly with mums and children and I never yet met a dad who shares 50% of childcare or 50% housework. Never. Even if the mum works fulltime. The only women I know with successful careers have a fulltime nanny and a cleaner and a husband who has always been the lower earner, and they are still absolutely shattered.

Perhaps things will be different for you than for everyone I’ve met, but don’t be too cross with the comments people are making - they’re trying to prepare you for the massive disillusionment and disappointment you’re heading for. Maternal instinct does exist btw and men have none. None at all.

I'll have to tell my son men have nothing like maternal instinct. Since he raised his son as a single parent from 3 weeks old I'm sure he'd love to know that only a mum could have instinctively known what the baby needed and he was just pretending. But then his father was excellent when it came to co parenting and was an equal partner, so maybe he had a good role model.

noidea555 · 28/03/2023 16:50

Surroundedbyfools · 28/03/2023 16:05

Tbf these were all worthwhile suggestions to me as unfortunately my DH is a lazy fucker. I think in general society sets the bar so low for dads that literally if they do anything at all it’s a big woop

Is the bar set that low? When a dad is shit, it is often met with a bit of a shrug of the shoulder and a "men, what are they like?" attitude.

However I often see when a dad is good, and i mean genuinely good the attitude tends to be "well its your kid, what do you want, a fucking medal?".

Whereas all mums are viewed as super heros regardless if they are good/bad/average.

Simonjt · 28/03/2023 17:12

We’re two dads, when I was a lone dad an MNer said she pitied whoever I hired to do the wife work for me, they couldn’t grasp that I’m raising my children, cooking, cleaning etc as any parent should. I’ve had doctors ask who they should share our childrens medical information with, erm us, their parents, nursery and school asking who they should call when both the contacts are men. When my cousin was a last priority contact my sons primary school phoned her first every single time, despite me being priority 1 and an additional note on his MIS profile.

You have to remember what these people really mean a lot of the time when they make these comments is “my partner/ex chooses not to raise his children”.

2023a · 28/03/2023 17:13

noidea555 · 28/03/2023 16:50

Is the bar set that low? When a dad is shit, it is often met with a bit of a shrug of the shoulder and a "men, what are they like?" attitude.

However I often see when a dad is good, and i mean genuinely good the attitude tends to be "well its your kid, what do you want, a fucking medal?".

Whereas all mums are viewed as super heros regardless if they are good/bad/average.

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Is the bar set that low? When a dad is shit, it is often met with a bit of a shrug of the shoulder and a "men, what are they like?" attitude.

You've just described a low bar. Nobody is shrugging and going “women, what are they like?” about shit mums.

However I often see when a dad is good, and i mean genuinely good the attitude tends to be "well its your kid, what do you want, a fucking medal?".

What should the attitude be? It is their kid, should they be applauded for good parenting?

Whereas all mums are viewed as super heros regardless if they are good/bad/average.

This is demonstrably untrue. Mums are judged for everything. Nobody coos over mums because they manage to take their kids out in public or ‘raise them single handedly’. I have never, in my life, heard that a mum is ‘hands on’ (as it’s assumed we will be, it’s our ‘job’), or ‘an involved mum’ or any of the terms applied to a father who is making some effort to pull his weight. Why do you think that is?

Oldermum84 · 28/03/2023 17:14

Everything changes post both. Their advice is good, take it on board.

2023a · 28/03/2023 17:20

Oldermum84 · 28/03/2023 17:14

Everything changes post both. Their advice is good, take it on board.

Meh.

whatkatydid2013 · 28/03/2023 17:30

surrenderdorothy · 28/03/2023 11:22

So you blame them - friends/family/acquaintances/colleagues, all, some of whom presumably don't know the stellar standards of your household - for relaying to you what they view as helpful advice from their own lived experience?

Or do you expect them to travel back in time and pick different men? Or to lie to you about their experience, and pretend everything will of course be equitable, because of the magic year 2023?

"The men who have given themselves said reputation" are, unfortunately, not rarities. I can see you run a very tight ship and would never have made such a dubious choice in partner...

When we’re both back at work, the plan is to both drop down to four days a week, to facilitate long term equal parenting.

It will be interesting to see how that actually pans out.

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No reason it won’t work out as planned. My OH and I did that for the year both kids were in paid childcare. From a work/life balance and minimising childcare costs it can be optimal. Much better value for many couples both going part time and losing a slice of income off the most taxed portion vs one drastically cutting hours/leaving.

Original poster

AlmostaMamma · 28/03/2023 18:18

Simonjt · 28/03/2023 17:12

We’re two dads, when I was a lone dad an MNer said she pitied whoever I hired to do the wife work for me, they couldn’t grasp that I’m raising my children, cooking, cleaning etc as any parent should. I’ve had doctors ask who they should share our childrens medical information with, erm us, their parents, nursery and school asking who they should call when both the contacts are men. When my cousin was a last priority contact my sons primary school phoned her first every single time, despite me being priority 1 and an additional note on his MIS profile.

You have to remember what these people really mean a lot of the time when they make these comments is “my partner/ex chooses not to raise his children”.

I’m quite cross on your behalf.

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Original poster

AlmostaMamma · 28/03/2023 18:20

@noidea555 all mums are viewed as super heros regardless if they are good/bad/average.

Are you a woman? A mother? And people view you as a superhero? As this hasn’t been what I’ve observed at all, ever.

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Onthegrid · 28/03/2023 18:35

I’ve only read page one but these threads make me smile. Some couples are able to share responsibilities and not all men are lazy arses.
We had our first DC 25 years ago, I have 4 weeks before the birth on medical rest and then 8 leave weeks after, DH had 2 weeks after then worked a couple of weeks before having 2 more off.
I didn’t BF (long story) and DH did more baby care for the first week than me whilst I recovered. We ate fine, cooking daily, the house got cleaned and the washing done.
If it was now would I have more leave, yes without a doubt as would DH.

ExpatInSlavikLand · 28/03/2023 18:48

The only thing my husband was useless at was cooking (for the first 2-3 weeks we ordered takeaways every other day or so and eked them out) so unless yours already cooks frequently, I would definitely suggest batch-cooking and freezing the week before you're due.

One thing to note, though: your husband might be overwhelmed once your baby arrives. It's a huge upheaval for both parents when their baby (especially their first) finally arrives, no matter how wanted and how well-organised and stoic they were before. He might be a bit slow and forgetful and therefore simply not notice if something needs doing. If he is like this, though, it'll only be temporary!

Take whatever everyone else says with a pinch of salt. Not every husband and partner out there is useless, though a great deal of them certainly are, and it's probably difficult for their wives abd partners to believe or accept that other men aren't!

Good luck with your baby xx

Blossomtoes · 28/03/2023 19:02

I would definitely suggest batch-cooking and freezing the week before you're due.

We sent our son and dil a week’s worth of Cook meals to arrive the week before the due date. Best present ever apparently.

Moreorlessmentallystable · 28/03/2023 19:08

surrenderdorothy · 27/03/2023 23:53

I’m currently extremely pregnant and the comments from friends/family/acquaintances/colleagues regarding having a newborn have been fascinating.

You'd almost think they have more life experience than you.

This 💯👌

jannier · 28/03/2023 19:14

Simonjt · 28/03/2023 17:12

We’re two dads, when I was a lone dad an MNer said she pitied whoever I hired to do the wife work for me, they couldn’t grasp that I’m raising my children, cooking, cleaning etc as any parent should. I’ve had doctors ask who they should share our childrens medical information with, erm us, their parents, nursery and school asking who they should call when both the contacts are men. When my cousin was a last priority contact my sons primary school phoned her first every single time, despite me being priority 1 and an additional note on his MIS profile.

You have to remember what these people really mean a lot of the time when they make these comments is “my partner/ex chooses not to raise his children”.

WTF that's so wrong

Moreorlessmentallystable · 28/03/2023 19:17

The reality is you both will be tired. My husband had 4 weeks at home ( 2 weeks annual leave and 2 weeks paternity leave) we were still exhausted 😅 I was exclusively breastfeeding so around 10 hours a day with the baby at my breast, 10 min to burp the baby after each feed, then 12 nappy changes a day...our first had really bad acid reflux so didn't sleep well til the 3rd month. Friends and family are not necessarily saying your partner will be useless, but just giving tips to hopefully make your life a little easier 💕

shelbaba · 28/03/2023 19:26

I think it's fine when he's off work but it does obviously change when he goes back to work. I didn't breastfeed for long with my first and spend almost a week in hospital. It was gd once home though that we cld share all the night feeds. He did more around house and made dinners etc the first few weeks, as I had an emcs and wasn't very well after.

Once he was back at work though all the night feeds were on me unless it was the wkend and obviously I had to do most of the household stuff given I was at home more during the week. He was out the house from before 8am and not home until after 6pm. Although I did practically through the baby at home once home lol.

Albiboba · 28/03/2023 20:16

Littlecamellia · 28/03/2023 11:21

I agree. So many posters on here seem to think that the dad should do an equal share of the housework and childcare, despite working long hours and bringing in the money.

In my day (I'm 70), the dad went to work and the woman looked after the house and children.

I know things have changed since then but it seems to me that the pendulum has swung too far.

Has it thought? I can’t say I know if a single situation where the man works, the woman stays at home and he does equal housework and parenting?? How would he even have time if he’s at work for 9 hours a day?

marthasmum · 28/03/2023 21:59

OP, I think one of the hard things is that you can’t predict, or even imagine, how you’re going to feel about things. My partner and I set things up very equally ie we both worked part time and he was, and is, very hands on with children and housework. Our three are now teenagers. What absolutely sideswiped me, for years, were my incredibly strong feelings that I wanted to be with the kids, full time. We didn’t do this because I didn’t ever think it was fair to him, or them to demand all the time with them and he got much less. However for years I battled with feeling resentful that he didn’t want to be the main earner and support me (something I’d never realised I wanted). I’m not saying this feeling is reasonable, just that it was strong and it took feminist me by surprise.
Plus, the feelings you have when the set up is supposedly ‘equal’ but as other posters have said, the baby wants only you (particularly if bf). Ok he can do ‘other things’ while the baby screams for you at 2am, but what if that makes exhausted you feel rageful and resentful? That’s the kind of thing that’s hard to plan for.

Original poster

AlmostaMamma · 28/03/2023 23:36

ExpatInSlavikLand · 28/03/2023 18:48

The only thing my husband was useless at was cooking (for the first 2-3 weeks we ordered takeaways every other day or so and eked them out) so unless yours already cooks frequently, I would definitely suggest batch-cooking and freezing the week before you're due.

One thing to note, though: your husband might be overwhelmed once your baby arrives. It's a huge upheaval for both parents when their baby (especially their first) finally arrives, no matter how wanted and how well-organised and stoic they were before. He might be a bit slow and forgetful and therefore simply not notice if something needs doing. If he is like this, though, it'll only be temporary!

Take whatever everyone else says with a pinch of salt. Not every husband and partner out there is useless, though a great deal of them certainly are, and it's probably difficult for their wives abd partners to believe or accept that other men aren't!

Good luck with your baby xx

I generally do more (certainly not all) of the cooking and food shopping, as I like it. He sorts pretty much everything else, but is a perfectly competent cook. And we’ve a weekly cleaner. I really think we’ll be fine on the housework front, but have taken comments on board and will be stocking up the freezer beforehand. Just in case.

Noted re the possibility of him being overwhelmed. Suspect we’ll both be, but will try to be kind to each other.

And thank you very much. 💗

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Original poster

AlmostaMamma · 28/03/2023 23:52

marthasmum · 28/03/2023 21:59

OP, I think one of the hard things is that you can’t predict, or even imagine, how you’re going to feel about things. My partner and I set things up very equally ie we both worked part time and he was, and is, very hands on with children and housework. Our three are now teenagers. What absolutely sideswiped me, for years, were my incredibly strong feelings that I wanted to be with the kids, full time. We didn’t do this because I didn’t ever think it was fair to him, or them to demand all the time with them and he got much less. However for years I battled with feeling resentful that he didn’t want to be the main earner and support me (something I’d never realised I wanted). I’m not saying this feeling is reasonable, just that it was strong and it took feminist me by surprise.
Plus, the feelings you have when the set up is supposedly ‘equal’ but as other posters have said, the baby wants only you (particularly if bf). Ok he can do ‘other things’ while the baby screams for you at 2am, but what if that makes exhausted you feel rageful and resentful? That’s the kind of thing that’s hard to plan for.

I don’t have to go back to work if I don’t want to. It’s unlikely that I’ll decide to end (or hit a long pause) on my career, as I love it. And I don’t know anyone who has wanted to. However, we’re pretty fortunate that either of us could be a SAHP and we’d live comfortably on one salary. So, should I (or he) feel the need to stay home full time, I (or he) will.

And there’s certainly the possibility of stress and resentment if the baby only wants me. Hopefully this doesn’t happen and, if it does, it passes.

However, all that doesn’t really have anything to do with what I posted about. Which is the assumption that while we are dealing with a newborn he can’t or won’t do basic chores like laundry. He can, does and will.

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