What the heck is a grammer school?

[BlackBarbies]

Posting here for traffic!

Born and raised in South West London and still live here now. I’ve never heard of a grammar school until joining MN a couple of years ago.

Is it a primary school, is it a secondary school? Is it private or public? If it’s public, then why is it called a grammer school? Is it only available for certain types of children or something? I literally have no clue what a grammer school is so I’m happy to be enlightened!

Also, are there any in SW London? I’m genuinely intrigued as to how I’ve never come across one before

I'm fully aware of how the country works, and a few others too. Whilst I've heard of them, I still had no idea what a grammar school was until I read the (helpful) responses in this thread.

I don't know how the benefits system works either to give an example a PP used, because I've never used it or needed to.

I was definitely like you once! I had no idea about this all. Turned out that I actually lived in catchment for one. I was quite 'bright', on the top tables at school etc. I recall a day where the other 5 children at my table (in Year 6) were discussing how the exam went. I didn't hear the words 'eleven plus' but that essentially was the process and exam they'd been through. My mum was totally oblivious, but she was busy working, so there would have been no time to prep me anyway.

He may have got a scholarship to a ‘posh’ (fee-paying) school as a result of his 11+, as I did. At the time I applied, parents had to fill out a UCAS style form stating their order of preference of secondary schools. (That bit still pertains, I think, but I don't know how parents at the time coped with predictions of passing/not passing the 11+.) Then if you did really well, you were offered an interview at the school of your choice. What neither I nor my parents knew at the time was that if you didn't get a scholarship to the public school that they chose/I attended after being successful, the local grammar would not accept you, so you fell right through to the local comprehensive. (And it would have felt like a fall, at the time, when comps were very new and untested.)

Maybe, hard of course to believe, she doesn’t live in England.

In some case yes but in Kent there are super-selective (only for the higher scoring passes) grammar schools which are more on a par with private schools in terms of desirability & often out perform on results because they have the brighest pupils in the first place I know plenty of prep school kids who took the 11+ but didn't get a high enough score for one of the 'super-selectives so continued at private for secondary. They are generally deemed to be an acceptable alternative to private - a shining example of how clever your child is. The boys' super-selectives in my area are more traditional buildings (the non-selective is more like your typical post-war comp), with a focus on rugby/cricket rather than football (so again, on a par with your typical private) extravagant school trips & some amazing extra curricular opportunities. They tend to have more money because there are more wealthy parents who will pay regularly into the 'optional' school fund thankful they no longer have to pay school fees.

ETA a Kent Test pass does NOT guarantee a place in Kent unless you have an exceptional score or live very close.

Grammar schools may have been fantastic for social mobility when they first opened but it's not the case now with so many heavily tutored children taking places from naturally bright children who don't have the same parental support &/or family finances.

Your teachers were very remiss in not telling you or your parents about it. Don’t you think?

Nope, those are all just schools that have the word grammar in their name. Not grammar schools.

I live in a grammar school area. Children in my sons year 2 class (6 and 7 yr olds) are already being tutored to pass the 11 plus. I thinks it’s actually very sad.

My mum is same year of birth and passed 11+ and the school expanded to an extra form her year.
It’s not a silly question. I grew up in a none grammar area and moved to one (there are a handful of grammar schools left in Lancashire)
What I didn’t realise was amount of prep going on that no one really talks openly about.
DD passed and enjoyed her time there but it wouldn’t suit everyone eg it was quite a narrow range of academic subjects and everyone had to do 3 separate sciences, a modern language etc.
The boys grammar in the county has state boarding I believe - education is free but parents pay for boarding element.

I went to the local grammar school and now my daughter goes to the same school. My son attends the local boys grammar. None of us had any paid for tuition although I did buy my daughter the revision books as the verbal reasoning test is not really like anything you would come across otherwise. Yes there are lots of ex private children there but also many where private school would never have been an option. I think maybe 10 children from my daughter's year at primary passed the test. My experience is that they really are not very different from any other school once you are through the door. When I went in the early 90's every child took the test unless you opted out whereas now you have to opt in and you go to the grammar school on a Saturday morning to take the test. There are only 2 sets of grammar schools in my county, not sure if that is less than other grammar areas in the country.
Some people seem to have very strong feelings on here about grammar schools, perhaps having grown up with them it just seems normal to me.

Before comprehensive schools were introduced in the late 60s/early 70s every child was assessed in year 6. Those who passed the 11+ went to grammar school, those who didn't went to a secondary modern. It was a very unfair model which judged children at age 10/11. And as often girls did better in the tests sometimes the test marks fir girls was harder. If you went to grammar school you were considered to be academic ,were taught academic subjects. If you went to a secondary modern you were considered less able and the curriculum included metal work, woodwork cookery and needlework.
When comprehensive schools were introduced some local authorities decided go keep grammar schools

Nope, those all just have “Grammar” in the name. And are in Ireland so of course they don’t meet the definition of grammar schools in the English educational system!

This

Ahh got ya! Kingston & Sutton feel so far away I can’t believe that’s what comes to mind when I saw SW London.

To me, SW = Brixton, Streatham, Croydon.
SE = Peckham, Bermondsey, Lewisham.
ignorant I know🫣

https://www.google.co.uk/

So those kids go to a non fee paying primary school but their parents are paying for them to have tutoring for the exam already?

Mumsnet really is a fucking cesspit these days. A young woman asks a perfectly innocuous question and a load of snotty, needlessly rude bastards pile on for no reason.

Private primary is generally cheaper than secondary and you might calculate that it’s cheaper to pay primary fees for 4 years and get them into the grammar than secondary fees for 7 years.

Grammar schools may have been fantastic for social mobility when they first opened
Perhaps for the lucky few who were mature and had developed enough at age 10/11 to pass the test. Many extremely able children were not ready at that age and were labelled as not 'bright enough'. And were in effect written off at age 10/11.

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I know different areas have different tests for 11 plus - some areas are moving to none tutorable tests.
I know one my dc sat was maths, reading, and verbal reasoning.
There was no co ordination with yr5 national curriculum. The children were tested 2 weeks into yr 6 on the entire yr 6 maths curriculum! No matter how bright you are you need someone to have taught you the maths for the test.
In my area the other schools are outstanding so people only put children in if they are likely to pass and academic environment will suit. Only 75% of places fill (pass and catchment guarantees a place) 25% bus in from surrounding areas. Bonus if you pass you know by beginning of October where you are going to secondary school, 1st March offer day is a formality.

Yep, the middle class twattery on this thread is off the fucking scale.

I'm clever enough that I went to a grammar school for sixth form (after slumming it at a comprehensive) and I still don't understand it all.

Loads of areas don't have these. None anywhere near where I live

Also, confusingly, we have a school near us with Grammar in the name which is actually a fee-paying school.

Reigate Boys Grammar by any chance?

Yep.
Also people keep on repeating the same jibe even though it’s already been said more than once. If you’re going to be snide at least be original.