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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is he being unreasonable? "Women's rights were won at the expense of men"

174 replies

Rainbowshit · 25/03/2023 21:08

twitter.com/billybragg/status/1462076809542094854?s=46&t=AjtjSItRj-kgZwRzL-pdy

So says Billy Bragg. Is he being unreasonable? 🤬

OP posts:
JudgeRudy · 26/03/2023 22:09

BenCoopersSupportWren · 26/03/2023 21:28

The male-only members of Brooks, Whites and the Turf Club all say hi.

What's Brooks?

maddening · 26/03/2023 22:20

Billy Bragg is a raging mysoginist.

BenCoopersSupportWren · 26/03/2023 22:38

JudgeRudy · 26/03/2023 22:09

What's Brooks?

They are all men-only clubs, still very much alive and well in 2023 despite your claim that men had lost their right to them.

FlyingWormsAndSubterraneanBirds · 26/03/2023 23:45

I've just realised I recognise your username @Mark19735 from your previous, bizarre 'Men are just like babies. He wants sex and attention. You need to divide your time and attention between the two babies in your life' post.

You told us in the same post that we, as women, should remember men can fix things and provide for us. That we should 'consider any time you spend giving him the sex and attention he wants an investment.' What a disgusting thing to say.

🤮🤮🤮

JudgeRudy · 26/03/2023 23:53

BenCoopersSupportWren · 26/03/2023 22:38

They are all men-only clubs, still very much alive and well in 2023 despite your claim that men had lost their right to them.

Actually I didn't say that. There are still a very few male only clubs but by far the majority of spaces are open to all.
Thank you, I've never heard of Brooks

margegunderson · 27/03/2023 00:05

Always hated whiny Billy. I was clearly ahead of the game! What a twunt.

McSlowburn · 27/03/2023 00:21

Regardless of Billy Bragg's quote, my DD announced she was gay last year. When I told my extremely traditional mum, she said "Well at least she won't marry an arsehole".

Divorcedalongtime · 27/03/2023 00:35

McSlowburn · 27/03/2023 00:21

Regardless of Billy Bragg's quote, my DD announced she was gay last year. When I told my extremely traditional mum, she said "Well at least she won't marry an arsehole".

I often wish my daughter will come out as lesbians for this same reason

SiobhanSharpe · 27/03/2023 00:35

And don't forget the Carlton club, beloved of so many tory grandees, and which traditionally invited all Conservative prime ministers to join. Except one - Margaret Thatcher.
(I don't suppose for a minute its members would subsequently invite Theresa or Lynn to join either but there was quite a furore when they declined to invite Mrs T, so worshipped by the party faithful and the Tory press.)

SinnerBoy · 27/03/2023 04:45

I don't see that realising that women are also people and that you are entitled to exactly the same rights as men is losing anything.

I don't feel robbed, or hard done by. I'm entirely happy with it and pleased that my daughter will hopefully grow up, without feeling that she's an inferior being.

So, Mr. Bragg - away and lie in your own piss.

Happylittlechicken · 27/03/2023 05:17

I don't believe BB hate women was my point.

have you seen his Twitter? He hates women so much it’s palpable. He’s a misogynistic has been who’s taking advantage of the current zeitgeist to openly show his hatred.

Ohyoudodoyou · 27/03/2023 06:25

He's off again, goading women on Twitter, baiting the amazing Julie Bindel.
He has goaded and taunted and harangued KJK and other women in Twitter.
I have done a stark 360 on this person in the last few weeks I'm astonished at the vitriol coming from him.
Fight back time.

thebaneofmylifeisacat · 27/03/2023 07:38

Loving the Twitter responses he's getting his arse handed to him on a plate 😂

PronounssheRa · 27/03/2023 07:54

He has been baiting Julie Bindel for a while now, where it got to the point Julie threatened to sue him because he lied about something Julie (hadnt) said

Ohyoudodoyou · 27/03/2023 08:00

I reported his tweet. I never even used Twitter until Bully Bragg!!!! I cannot see why he has the fucking right to sneer at women meeting to discus a women's issues. My friend was at a lesbian group on Saturday and men were ousted protesting!! He was probably there rubbing his hands up and down his thighs.

Florissante · 27/03/2023 08:04

Mark19735 · 26/03/2023 10:35

Typical - and spectacular - missing the point though.

First, he's tweeting in support of TRAs - so the context is about women losing "rights" relative to (in his view) an even more under-privileged minority. The GCs may disagree with that premise, but this is the context in which he's made that statement and context is important. Taking the tweet at face value and applying it more broadly to a range of other issues is highly selective misquoting and demeans anyone trying to make a serious point.

Second, of course women's rights were won at the expense of men's rights. The fact that this previous allocation of rights was unfair, unjust and ultimately not in the long-term interests of society and the economy doesn't change that. A PP asked "did men lose the right to vote - No?" but missed the fairly obvious point that after women's suffrage was achieved, men's votes only accounted for 50% of the theoretical maximum votes cast. Oh ... and men also, eventually, started losing their "right" to single sex spaces (e.g. Royal & Ancient Golf Club, St Andrews etc.).

Why do people who want change feel the need to pretend it comes at no cost. There's always a cost. The winning argument ought to be, "those costs are worth it because the benefits are even greater" - not "there's no costs" or even worse "because the costs are borne by people I don't like, it's OK to disregard them".

I wonder if the reason TRAs get under the skin of so many feminists is because they really do expose some of the fault lines in feminism? Sex didn't matter when it was about rising up in the workplace and getting seats at the top table at board meetings (even though, patently and demonstrably, sex does and always has mattered hugely in most professions). But now that the issue of the day is about access to toilets suddenly sex does matter again? Where's the logic? But sure, if society wants to change its mind (or evolve) then the corollary is that people ought to freely admit that there really was no justification at all for all those court cases and furore about members clubs in London - and that men losing "rights" was a necessary and worthwhile price to pay so that women could gain equality? Isn't that what Billy Bragg's tweet actually says?

Biscuit
Goodread1 · 27/03/2023 08:09

Snap I used to quite like Billy Brag years ago, seems like eons now,
Until he opened his Gob, that is,

This is what I mean, about certain well known figures,
They should just stick to whatever got them well known in the first place and leave it like 👍 like that.!

Not thinking cause they are famous, that makes them interesting and Articulate and intelligent cause they have managed to get out of being obscurity or something.! 😆L.o.l

Why do they think their opinions are worth listening to in the first place ,cause of who they are, ?
Same goes flogging of certain books genres with a celebrity behind it,

SquidwardBound · 27/03/2023 08:10

Sex didn't matter when it was about rising up in the workplace and getting seats at the top table at board meetings (even though, patently and demonstrably, sex does and always has mattered hugely in most professions). But now that the issue of the day is about access to toilets suddenly sex does matter again? Where's the logic?

Is this actually a parody point?

I don’t know what kind of board meeting you’ve been attending if your genitalia is actively used in the process.

I’m going to suggest that they weren’t legitimate business meetings though.

TrudyProud · 27/03/2023 08:12

Member589500 · 25/03/2023 21:14

Typical left wing man. Would he say black people won their freedom at the expense of white people or colonies gained freedom at the expense of their colonisers?
Yes men did lose some of their privilege.
I don’t cry about it.

As a black woman I can confirm that a large number of white people do believe this. Whenever people hark back to the "good old days" I remind them what those days entailed for non white people.

mybeautifuloak · 27/03/2023 08:17

minou123 · 25/03/2023 21:15

Absolutely unreasonable and his argument doesn't make any sense.

What did men lose?

▪︎ When women were given the right to vote - did men lose the right to vote? No

▪︎ When women were given the right to own property - did men lose the right to buy property? No

▪︎ When women were given the right to equal pay - did men see thier pay reduce? No

I could go on.....

Yes men lost because they no longer had control. They lost the absolute control they wielded

RosaBonheur · 27/03/2023 08:27

YABVU to even ask this question, OP.

Billy Bragg is a weapons grade, attention seeking wanker.

Jonei · 27/03/2023 08:27

Perhaps BB thinks KJK should sit around, singing boring jaded class action songs about the working man's lot in life, instead of demonstrating bravery, as she has done, and actually going out to take direct action about women's rights. Billy Bragg has never brave or capable enough to take real action about something meaningful, in the way KJK has..

Brefugee · 27/03/2023 08:46

So sad but so true. Specially all those women who say “equality has gone too far”

anyone who says that needs to go back to school and find out what equality means.

Some idiots think that the fight for women's rights started and ended with the vote. Which wasn't won for all women at the same time. But equal pay (in theory if not in practice) didn't come in until, what, the 70s? My mum earned more than my dad and yet he had to sign permission for her bank account withdrawals and transactions, to "allow" her on the mortgage and to have a credit card.

as for Mark's idiocy, I'd love to Fisk it but others got there first.

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