Is he being unreasonable? "Women's rights were won at the expense of men"

[Rainbowshit]

twitter.com/billybragg/status/1462076809542094854?s=46&t=AjtjSItRj-kgZwRzL-pdy

So says Billy Bragg. Is he being unreasonable? 🤬

So Billy Bragg is showing his true colours now.

He’s a repellant man.

‘Almost all physical and sexual violence in society is male violence, perpetrated by a minority of men. Imagine being so ignorant of this you imagine men giving up single sex spaces is in any way equivalent to women giving up single spaces.’

Sonia Sodha (journalist) had this to say and I can’t top it.

I’ll just add ‘fuck off Billy Bragg.’

"When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression” Bragg is a misogynist, pure and simple.

I'm pretty sure men weren't afraid of being raped when they had to give up some of their single-sex spaces. Prick.

Oh right, so because we were thrown a few crumbs by the Menz, we should now hand over the tiny bits of safety we were soooooo kindly loaned because some has-been from the 80s think we got a bit above ourselves?

He's a complete arsehole. I used to love his love songs. Were part of my growing up. I cannot thole the man now.

Arrogant, ignorant, thick as mince. And a god-awful singer.

And the right to steal all their property. I mean, you can see why they're cross.

What a cock-wombling twat-badger.

Jesus, I liked his music. Another one on the never play again pile. I despair.

He's full of shit. Our rights not at men's "expense" at all. Women have a lot to contribute, but misogynists just like that irrelevant fossil have put more effort into thwarting us than sharing the benefits of our talent, or doing their own bit to make the world a better place.

He is not going to like the backlash.

Does he actually say what rights? Or that they lost privilege rather than rights

Whatever you do, don't show him the data demonstrating that companies with equal male and female people as executive Board members consistently outperform those run only by men. His head might explode.

Actually please do email it to him and do the world a favour. Just hope he isn't in a public place when he reads it so no unsuspecting bystanders are unfortunate enough to get splattered with shreds of what passes for his brain.

Its nice to see celeb types calling this bollocks out too

Billy Bragg is an absolute cunt. He obviously hates women as he continually supports the rights of men to invade our hospital wards, prisons, cloakrooms, sports etc. He applauds the disgusting demonstration in New Zealand this weekend where a women's rights speaker (known as Posy Parker) from the UK was assaulted and prevented from speaking. This type of shutting women up happens here too, with rabid men using the transphobic bandwagon to stop women talking about their issues with transwomen. Thank god World Athletics has now said that transwomen cannot compete in women's races at international level - this needs to be in all sports at all levels - if they have gone through puberty and gained the massive physical advantages. The fight that the Suffragettes had a century ago is back with us. We need to stand together and men need to support us.

Nice to see he is getting ratioed hard for that tweet.

Not only is it wrong, it is also massively ignorant of the struggle for women's rights and the rights movements in general in the 20th century in the west. Throughout history until the early 20th century political and economic power in the west was held largely by a group of wealthy white men. Millions of men couldn't vote either until 1918 - were their rights at the "expense" of someone or is it just women whose rights take away from mens'?

The reality is that giving women political and economic rights only took power away from wealthy white men and it was hardly "at their expense" given that that power was gained through oppression. Do you think Bragg would say the same about the civil rights movement in the US?

I'll be honest, seeing Billy Bragg being an apologist for an oppressive elite is something I never thought I'd see. He really has lost his way.

"Bragg" and "misogyny" in the same sentence was a common experience in the 80s and early 90s when he was part of the Red Wedge type circuit. He was what used to be called lower middle class suburban boy from a very white, socially conservative area and as far as I can see that has stayed with him. You see a lot of the more vocal left wing men in Labour and the Union movement - it translates to authoritarianism on the left.

He campaigned for the LibDems in 2010 and their success led to the disastrous 13 years of austerity and Brexit.

Typical - and spectacular - missing the point though.

First, he's tweeting in support of TRAs - so the context is about women losing "rights" relative to (in his view) an even more under-privileged minority. The GCs may disagree with that premise, but this is the context in which he's made that statement and context is important. Taking the tweet at face value and applying it more broadly to a range of other issues is highly selective misquoting and demeans anyone trying to make a serious point.

Second, of course women's rights were won at the expense of men's rights. The fact that this previous allocation of rights was unfair, unjust and ultimately not in the long-term interests of society and the economy doesn't change that. A PP asked "did men lose the right to vote - No?" but missed the fairly obvious point that after women's suffrage was achieved, men's votes only accounted for 50% of the theoretical maximum votes cast. Oh ... and men also, eventually, started losing their "right" to single sex spaces (e.g. Royal & Ancient Golf Club, St Andrews etc.).

Why do people who want change feel the need to pretend it comes at no cost. There's always a cost. The winning argument ought to be, "those costs are worth it because the benefits are even greater" - not "there's no costs" or even worse "because the costs are borne by people I don't like, it's OK to disregard them".

I wonder if the reason TRAs get under the skin of so many feminists is because they really do expose some of the fault lines in feminism? Sex didn't matter when it was about rising up in the workplace and getting seats at the top table at board meetings (even though, patently and demonstrably, sex does and always has mattered hugely in most professions). But now that the issue of the day is about access to toilets suddenly sex does matter again? Where's the logic? But sure, if society wants to change its mind (or evolve) then the corollary is that people ought to freely admit that there really was no justification at all for all those court cases and furore about members clubs in London - and that men losing "rights" was a necessary and worthwhile price to pay so that women could gain equality? Isn't that what Billy Bragg's tweet actually says?

Wow, what rights have men lost?

The ability to capitalise on a woman's poverty ???

The ability to capitalise on a woman's poverty

Yes.

Yes.

Thinking that it was never a right that a sub-section of society should ever have had is not the same - semantically - as arguing it was not a right they lost. They did lose that right. I'm OK with that. Most other people are OK with that too. No need to pretend it wasn't previously a right, or that it wasn't lost though. That's just intellectually dishonest.

It's a false equivalence though, unless you are saying things like single sex spaces etc are never a right that women should have had.

“First, he's tweeting in support of TRAs - so the context is about women losing "rights" relative to (in his view) an even more under-privileged minority. The GCs may disagree with that premise, but this is the context in which he's made that statement and context is important.”

this is literally the entirety of what I disagree with though, I understand the context
Oh, and the fact that some men having to give up all male golf clubs or top jobs (because they’re not all that just because they’ve got a penis) or whatever is not the same as women having to give up all female prisons or refuges where they are particularly vulnerable.

So you agree with him. Men lost an advantage.

His tweet said:
"Women’s rights were won at the expense of men. That’s not a criticism of process, simply an illustration of what must happen for an excluded group to win their human rights."

So he thinks that it was right that men lost that advantage for women to win their human rights, like you do. He has been deliberately misquoted to make it sound like he thinks the opposite.

My god what an idiot