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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Friend wanting me to pay legal fees

167 replies

msbees · 25/03/2023 10:12

I primarily live in SF, CA (am British, but lived here for years). My friend lost her job and is convinced she's got a shot a filing a lawsuit and suing for wrongful termination. I don't know the ins and outs of the case because we've only exchanged a few texts on the matter. She is looking at hiring lawyers and as is common knowledge, Americans love litigation. However, she asked me over text if I could 'donate' to her legal costs. I asked what her costs would be and how much she had to hand anyway. She quoted $20k - and said that she had only $15k to her name. She said her own money (the $15k) would be next to nothing soon enough due to loss of health insurance and her general outgoings (healthcare is not like it is the UK in regards to insurance costs). So she really asking for $20k - but that's just to engage the lawyer/draft up a case. When I asked for more information about the actual case, she didn't go into much detail at all and just ranted about her hatred of the CEO and his dodgy behaviour. She did say she would shed more light on it when she had more time. So I said ok (to talking about it another time). She then left it at the same question (would I be willing to pay for the costs).

She knows I can 'afford it' due to my previous company sale being public information, yet I can't help but feel uneasy about it. I also think it's my British nature to be more reserved about money, whereas Americans are a lot more open about it. Also, when a company is sold, most of the money goes to paying shareholders etc... so what she might have seen online is nowhere near close to what we each have. (Each being management team).

I'm only too happy to get more details about the case, but she sounds incredibly angry at her previous employer and is out for blood. I can't help but think it is a waste of money, but that's only going off what little information I have.

Legal costs have a way of quickly rising into the 0000's. I don't think she has thought this through... or frankly cares. AIBU to say no, even before hearing her out at a later date?

OP posts:
lazycats · 25/03/2023 16:17

Did you really post this thread thinking anyone would say ‘yes, go for it’?

rookiemere · 25/03/2023 16:23

Nice as it sounds, I wouldn't be recommending her for other companies atm, she doesn't sound in the right place to be a constructive new hire and you don't want to damage your own professional reputation.

If she has genuinely been a good friend up to now, I'd reach put with something like " Friend, I'm happy to be a listening ear but I'm not willing to fund this. Are you ok, this doesn't seem like you ? "

saltinesandcoffeecups · 25/03/2023 17:09

You made the right decision… American here, and wrongful termination is really hard to prove. Let me guess she used the phrase “Hostile work environment“? That’s usually where people go when they want to sue former employers. Most of the time their situation doesn’t meet the legal definition. The next most common is discrimination, but unless she has evidence (as in written from) of it’s next to impossible to prove in the legal sense and she would have to be a member of a protected class.

Yes their are fewer employment protections in the US and employment contracts are rare, but most companies follow a systematic, fair, and legal approach when it comes to termination.

What she’s hoping for is a settlement and revenge, both of which are pipe dreams.

Let her rant but stay firm on the “No”.

DrMarciaFieldstone · 25/03/2023 17:12

Not hard to see why people like this have their employment terminated.

pilates · 25/03/2023 17:13

A true friend would respect the word no.

CantFindTheBeat · 25/03/2023 17:19

Not the point of the thread, but I've just googled 'at will' and it's quite scary how few rights a lot a US employees have.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 25/03/2023 17:29

CantFindTheBeat · 25/03/2023 17:19

Not the point of the thread, but I've just googled 'at will' and it's quite scary how few rights a lot a US employees have.

It sounds scarier than it is in practice. There are still discrimination laws, whistleblower protections, and other laws to protect workers. Plus the ‘at will’ cuts both ways, workers can terminate employment at any time without being tied to a notice period.

As I said most employers follow fair procedures for terminating employees like warnings and documented performance plans.

CantFindTheBeat · 25/03/2023 17:42

@saltinesandcoffeecups

Thanks for clarifying. I've been watching too many Suits episodes where people get sacked and given a box to pack their things 🙈

saltinesandcoffeecups · 25/03/2023 17:49

CantFindTheBeat · 25/03/2023 17:42

@saltinesandcoffeecups

Thanks for clarifying. I've been watching too many Suits episodes where people get sacked and given a box to pack their things 🙈

That does happen, but usually there is warning

FictionalCharacter · 25/03/2023 18:40

Say no, but do not feel the need to explain yourself. If you start saying why you don’t want to, she’ll try to persuade you. Just say “No Sandra, absolutely not”. When she says “why not, you can afford it?” just repeat “No Sandra, absolutely not”. Rinse and repeat.

Riverlee · 25/03/2023 19:22

‘Donate’ does suggest she wants you to give her the money, rather than loan her it.

Greenshed · 26/03/2023 17:26

Follow that old saying on this one: “Neither a borrower nor a lender be”.
You’ll end up losing out, in more ways than one, I think.

PeloMom · 26/03/2023 17:37

Nope. Nope. Don’t get involved. She should find a lawyer who gets a % of the settlement won (and would mean the lawyer has some confidence in winning the case). Sounds like she could only retain a lawyer who gets paid regardless of how things go… which tells me about how much confidence said lawyer has in this being a strong case

anon666 · 26/03/2023 18:29

No. It sounds like she's got obsessed with it, and maybe she has been wronged.

But asking someone else to fund something like this is a hard pass.

It's got no guarantee of success and will likely just lead her into misery and even poverty.

Instead she should pay for therapy to help her move on. It's not easy to make that suggestion but I was horrendously wronged at work and cheated out of nearly £200k in redundancy. That doesn't mean there was any form of redress that would have worked. It would have made me incredibly bitter to pursue it and fail.

Rosula · 26/03/2023 18:32

If her case was that good I suspect that, in America, she could get it dealt with on a no win no fee basis. The fact that that isn't apparently happening speaks volumes.

Confrontayshunme · 26/03/2023 18:34

She needs to engage a no win-no fee lawyer. If several of them refuse her case, it is unlikely she would win. Don't go there.

OhcantthInkofaname · 26/03/2023 18:42

NO! I'm in the US. If she has a viable case then attorneys would take it on a contingency basis. She may have to put up a retainer probably no more than 5-10,000.

TheTruthWillSetYouFreeMaybe · 26/03/2023 18:44

Don’t go there. I go along with Judge Judy. If you can afford to give away the money with no need to be repaid, fine. If not, say no. If you can afford it, as she says, say ‘here you are, this is as much as I can give you but never ask me again’

LaDamaDeElche · 26/03/2023 18:50

It depends. If she has a decent case and 20k is not a lot of money for you, then I would if she's a long standing friend. If those things don't apply, then no, I wouldn't.

Stewball01 · 26/03/2023 19:00

.
NO. NO. NO.
Tell.her to open a go fund me page. Don't even think about giving her the money.

helpplease01 · 26/03/2023 19:13

Are you kidding!!!
Just say NO! Can't afford it.
Try crowd funding.
The end.

Purplepinkfairy · 26/03/2023 19:19

Please say no. I bet if you say no you wont hear from her. If you say yes you will never see the money back.

Grrrrdarling · 26/03/2023 19:19

msbees · 25/03/2023 10:12

I primarily live in SF, CA (am British, but lived here for years). My friend lost her job and is convinced she's got a shot a filing a lawsuit and suing for wrongful termination. I don't know the ins and outs of the case because we've only exchanged a few texts on the matter. She is looking at hiring lawyers and as is common knowledge, Americans love litigation. However, she asked me over text if I could 'donate' to her legal costs. I asked what her costs would be and how much she had to hand anyway. She quoted $20k - and said that she had only $15k to her name. She said her own money (the $15k) would be next to nothing soon enough due to loss of health insurance and her general outgoings (healthcare is not like it is the UK in regards to insurance costs). So she really asking for $20k - but that's just to engage the lawyer/draft up a case. When I asked for more information about the actual case, she didn't go into much detail at all and just ranted about her hatred of the CEO and his dodgy behaviour. She did say she would shed more light on it when she had more time. So I said ok (to talking about it another time). She then left it at the same question (would I be willing to pay for the costs).

She knows I can 'afford it' due to my previous company sale being public information, yet I can't help but feel uneasy about it. I also think it's my British nature to be more reserved about money, whereas Americans are a lot more open about it. Also, when a company is sold, most of the money goes to paying shareholders etc... so what she might have seen online is nowhere near close to what we each have. (Each being management team).

I'm only too happy to get more details about the case, but she sounds incredibly angry at her previous employer and is out for blood. I can't help but think it is a waste of money, but that's only going off what little information I have.

Legal costs have a way of quickly rising into the 0000's. I don't think she has thought this through... or frankly cares. AIBU to say no, even before hearing her out at a later date?

For me red flags started waving & alarm bells ringing when she wouldn’t go into more detail with you about that case.
You wouldn’t go to a bank & ask for a loan without a financial plan or write up to show you could afford to cover the loan so why does she expect you to handover $20,000 with NO proof of what has occurred, a basic case, so you can assess the risk to your loan?!
I mean the least she should be doing is asking you to look at the evidence she has & asking you to let her know if you think she has a case then maybe running it past a pro-bono lawyer, together, before any money is discussed.
Sounds like she sees you as a soft touch or cash cow so I’d avoid.

LadyMonicaBaddingham · 26/03/2023 19:21

Never a borrower or a lender be... Unless you can afford to give it as a gift, it's an absolute no-no. It may affect your friendship with a chancer, but a true friend will understand that you can't afford it and move on.

GG1986 · 26/03/2023 19:25

Don't do it! But if you do decide to then at least have a legal agreement written up that she will pay you back? Personally though I wouldn't even go there.