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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Friend wanting me to pay legal fees

167 replies

msbees · 25/03/2023 10:12

I primarily live in SF, CA (am British, but lived here for years). My friend lost her job and is convinced she's got a shot a filing a lawsuit and suing for wrongful termination. I don't know the ins and outs of the case because we've only exchanged a few texts on the matter. She is looking at hiring lawyers and as is common knowledge, Americans love litigation. However, she asked me over text if I could 'donate' to her legal costs. I asked what her costs would be and how much she had to hand anyway. She quoted $20k - and said that she had only $15k to her name. She said her own money (the $15k) would be next to nothing soon enough due to loss of health insurance and her general outgoings (healthcare is not like it is the UK in regards to insurance costs). So she really asking for $20k - but that's just to engage the lawyer/draft up a case. When I asked for more information about the actual case, she didn't go into much detail at all and just ranted about her hatred of the CEO and his dodgy behaviour. She did say she would shed more light on it when she had more time. So I said ok (to talking about it another time). She then left it at the same question (would I be willing to pay for the costs).

She knows I can 'afford it' due to my previous company sale being public information, yet I can't help but feel uneasy about it. I also think it's my British nature to be more reserved about money, whereas Americans are a lot more open about it. Also, when a company is sold, most of the money goes to paying shareholders etc... so what she might have seen online is nowhere near close to what we each have. (Each being management team).

I'm only too happy to get more details about the case, but she sounds incredibly angry at her previous employer and is out for blood. I can't help but think it is a waste of money, but that's only going off what little information I have.

Legal costs have a way of quickly rising into the 0000's. I don't think she has thought this through... or frankly cares. AIBU to say no, even before hearing her out at a later date?

OP posts:
QueSyrahSyrah · 25/03/2023 11:10

butterfliedtwo · 25/03/2023 10:58

Why all the suggested explanations? It's perfectly fine to just say. "no, I'm not paying your legal fees."

It's an outrageous request.

Totally agree. Always staggered by how many 'just say [insert lie here]' suggestions are made on Mumsnet about all kinds of topics, where often the basic truth is a perfectly acceptable response.

HoneyPotBee · 25/03/2023 11:12

Just because you can ‘afford’ something doesn’t mean you have to do it.

I say no to many things I can afford. Just give them another reason for declining. If they don’t take it well then it’s their problem and they never saw you as a friend in the first place.

BMW6 · 25/03/2023 11:15

Disaster written all over it. NO.

TomatoSandwiches · 25/03/2023 11:19

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 25/03/2023 10:52

For all you know, she could be looking into how much she can tap you for and then not even go down the legal route - just take your money as her 'compensation'!

I can see the thinking now:
CF: "Right, I've got $20K towards my legal costs."
CF's lawyer: "Well, we can proceed, but It's risky - there's no guarantee that you would win and the legal costs could end up much higher than that, maybe higher than the amount you would be awarded if you are successful."
CF: "I see. In that case, it's probably not worth the risk - it's very frustrating, but I'd probably be wiser to just keep MY $20K and not proceed any further."

This is where my mind first went op, how long ago did your sale go through or figures listed?

MissConductUS · 25/03/2023 11:19

If she had a strong case, an attorney would take it on a contingency agreement. The fact that she's being asked to pay upfront means that there's no realistic chance she'd win.

L3ThirtySeven · 25/03/2023 11:20

Don’t! The US has thousands of no win no fee lawyers out there for all kinds of employment law. They only reject cases that haven’t a leg to stand on.

Don’t give her any money. She’s either not approached any no win no fee lawyers or she has and has no case.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 25/03/2023 11:23

.

Friend wanting me to pay legal fees
Riverlee · 25/03/2023 11:24

Another resounding No from me, and what a cheeky mare.

I’d like an all expensive trip to the Seychelles, but don’t go around routinely asking my more wealthy friends to pay for me.

Has she commented how and when she would pay the money back, or is it dependent on whether she would win the case.

Emmamoo89 · 25/03/2023 11:24

Don't do it

Rainbowshine · 25/03/2023 11:25

No way would I donate or lend a cent

I’d reply soon to nip it in the bud, and no sorry or ifs or anything like that

“I will not be giving any money towards this. I recommend that you call a no win no fee attorney as they will also help you understand how likely it is that you will get compensation and how much money that might be so you can decide if it’s worth it. “

Anyonebut · 25/03/2023 11:31

If she actually has a good case, she should go with a no-win, no-fee lawyer (unless that’s just a Hollywood thing and they don’t really exist) 😄.

Beaverbridge · 25/03/2023 11:33

Straight forward. No.

ScottBakula · 25/03/2023 11:33

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 25/03/2023 10:36

This plan of hers has got 'will end in tears' written all the way through like a stick of Blackpool rock.

What is she hoping to gain? Is she expecting to be awarded millions for defamation/hurt feelings etc., or is it more likely to just be lost earnings - and so probably more than eaten by by the legal fees? Surely she realises that $20K is only going to be the start and isn't a fixed price? What would she do when that $20K vanishes, with barely anything to show for it? If you were to give it to her, it would be "But we've gone too far to stop now!" and then she'd have her hand out for goodness knows how much more from you.

Even without the costs for the legal case, it sounds like she's not going to have enough to live on and pay her health bills for very long anyway, so I have a pretty good idea where she will come looking for money to pay for that....

I can only see your friendship being irreparably damaged by this - it's just whether you 'split up' now by saying "Sorry, no" at the outset or whether later, having lost a truck-load of cash, when the judge/lawyers say "Sorry, no".

All of this with bells and whistles on.

As pp have said tell her to go to a no win no fee lawyer .

You said she hasn't told you much about the 'case' , dont ask for info or she may draw you in / pull at heart strings ect.
Also how well do you know her , could if be a scam ? Or does she normally blow up about small / strange things.
Do uou keep in touch much ? If so has her hatred been building for a while ( so possibly genuine) or has she got in touch out of the blue because "you have money "

If you find it hard to say a blunt no , tell her you have reinvested your cash into another company so cant donate ( and was considering asking her for a lone 🤔)

MadeofElephantStone · 25/03/2023 11:54

No. If she is so sure she would win she wouldn't have any issues contributing her own money. It's easy to risk away others people's money.

MissConductUS · 25/03/2023 11:56

Anyonebut · 25/03/2023 11:31

If she actually has a good case, she should go with a no-win, no-fee lawyer (unless that’s just a Hollywood thing and they don’t really exist) 😄.

Yank here. They exist, and there are ones that specialize in employment law. The problem is that unless you have an employment contract, you are an "at will" employee, meaning you can quit at will, and they can terminate you at will. There are few narrow grounds for a wrongful termination suit, and it's very much an uphill climb.

When these suits are filed, it's usually a tactic to negotiate a better outcome, like letting the person resign instead of being fired for cause or to get more severance pay.

OP, this is a lost cause. Don't fund it. She will eventually realize this isn't going anywhere.

CremeEggThief · 25/03/2023 11:57

Who on earth are the 3% in the poll who think YABU?!

2bazookas · 25/03/2023 11:58

Surely even in USA, there are pro-bono lawyers, and lawyers who offer "no win, no fee"?

I reckon this ex employer is that Nigerian politician with a cancer diagnosis who's been robbed and stranded on holiday in Rome. Poor guy; it's a miracle he's survived so long. Thanks for all your prayers.

I wouldn't send a penny.

MrsSkylerWhite · 25/03/2023 11:58

Friendships and money don’t always mix well.

Don’t they have no win, no fee lawyers in the US? If her case is that strong, they’d take it on, surely?

Original poster
msbees · 25/03/2023 12:04

Thank you for all your responses. Our Co was sold in 2019. Announced in May 2019, everything went through by Oct 2019. So very much public knowledge.

In answer to questions, she's deliberately choosing the most expensive lawyers in order to put the frighteners on. In the US, money talks. But the problem is, it wouldn't be her money anyway. Some of the lawyers will be people like you and me would have seen on TV. (I hate that hysterical nature RE: US lawyers ).

I've also decided to not engage in conversation about it via the phone. Texts can just go unanswered after a hard no.

OP posts:
Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · 25/03/2023 12:06

A very wise decision.

BCfan · 25/03/2023 12:08

You'd be insane to agree to do this

Thirdsummerofourdiscontent · 25/03/2023 12:08

If it’s a sure thing she can find a no win no fee lawyer. Do not do it. I can’t believe she asked you.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 25/03/2023 12:09

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 25/03/2023 10:36

This plan of hers has got 'will end in tears' written all the way through like a stick of Blackpool rock.

What is she hoping to gain? Is she expecting to be awarded millions for defamation/hurt feelings etc., or is it more likely to just be lost earnings - and so probably more than eaten by by the legal fees? Surely she realises that $20K is only going to be the start and isn't a fixed price? What would she do when that $20K vanishes, with barely anything to show for it? If you were to give it to her, it would be "But we've gone too far to stop now!" and then she'd have her hand out for goodness knows how much more from you.

Even without the costs for the legal case, it sounds like she's not going to have enough to live on and pay her health bills for very long anyway, so I have a pretty good idea where she will come looking for money to pay for that....

I can only see your friendship being irreparably damaged by this - it's just whether you 'split up' now by saying "Sorry, no" at the outset or whether later, having lost a truck-load of cash, when the judge/lawyers say "Sorry, no".

All of this - especially the bit about the fees inevitably spiralling and the later point about her probably just keeping the money if she's advised not to sue

In any case "going to law" is best done with a clear head and not just because you're pissed at someone; if she wants to play tthat game tell her to start a crowdfunder and hope there'll be mugs willing to pay

Original poster
msbees · 25/03/2023 12:10

MissConductUS · 25/03/2023 11:56

Yank here. They exist, and there are ones that specialize in employment law. The problem is that unless you have an employment contract, you are an "at will" employee, meaning you can quit at will, and they can terminate you at will. There are few narrow grounds for a wrongful termination suit, and it's very much an uphill climb.

When these suits are filed, it's usually a tactic to negotiate a better outcome, like letting the person resign instead of being fired for cause or to get more severance pay.

OP, this is a lost cause. Don't fund it. She will eventually realize this isn't going anywhere.

Show quote history

This is what I'm thinking is the case. She was an "at will" employee. The company does exist and yes she did get fired. So it's not about lying or anything. It's more about the hysterical nature of it all. She is scrambling for money and just desperate, I think.

OP posts:
FiddleLeaf · 25/03/2023 12:11

Hell no