To think parents should NOT let primary aged children on messaging/social media?

[SocialMediaPITA]

I'm a primary school teacher in year 6. I spend lots of time having to deal with pupils falling out with each other on messaging apps/social media outside of school hours. They then bring these issues into school the next day, and there are tears, tantrums and, on some occasions, fights. And staff have to give up lunch hours, break time and learning/lesson time to deal with the fall out. Children can't learn if they are brewing on what's happened the night before, eg falling out with their peers.

Why do parents let their children on social media? The min age for WhatsApp is 16 - it's 16 for a reason! Many primary aged children are not emotionally able to deal with issues via messaging - even as adults we can recognise that tone and body language can play a huge part in communicating - social media and messaging removes that important aspect and if we as adults can get it wrong, why do we expect children to be able to deal with it? It's affecting their mental health.

I've mopped too many tears this week and much of it can be avoided.

Perhaps if schools weren’t relying on it, it would be easier to hold back

I agree completely. It's appalling that schools expect and rely on children having smart phones.

In addition to all the other issues already mentioned there' s also a problem with this from a money point of view. School is meant to be free! Of course parents have always had to provide uniform, calculators etc but smart phones ( and the cost of running them) is in a different league!

In the "olden days" schools would never have asked parents to buy their children a porn magazine because it had a good educational supplement, would they?

I’m not sure what you mean… I’m not talking about WhatsApp!

But it’s just the start. In my eldest class, I’d say a third of parents were split by yr 4. That’s 10 kids with mobile phones. It’s not difficult to see how Bob and Sam are best mates and share their numbers - where’s the harm in that? Then Chis wants to join, and then harry - and suddenly why don’t the kids use Whatsapp - that’s easier than using text messages for the 4 of them isn’t it?

Then those kids are putting pressure on their class mates - and also parents are passing around comment in the playground how poor Evan can’t join in cos his poor parents haven’t got him a phone yet…. Of course you shouldn’t give in to peer pressure - but we’ve all done it one way or another.

Then it’s the knowledge they need to have a phone for yr 7, and know how to use it, so they need a phone by yr6 so they are ready for secondary.

it all adds up to a headache for yr 6 teachers!

And I should say - parents should be all over how the phone is being used and aware what’s going on and helping the child navigate social situations, just as they were when their child as a toddler went to a play group. There is no excuse not to.

I agree completely. It's appalling that schools expect and rely on children having smart phones
I agree too.
I don't think schools should expect students to have certain apps and anything digital should be able to be accessed on a family or parent device (eg laptop or computer or if needed web browser on a phone)

I understand why some schools have got homework apps though. Huge amounts of time is lost when students don't write their homework, don't do it, then parents call school complaining that nobody told Tommy he had homework so he won't be doing the detention.

DS got a basic phone just before he started walking to/from school alone in y5. I was always very clear that he should always have it in his pocket and I was happy to replace if there was an accident. After one incident where the phone did break, and I cheerfully said “never mind, it didn’t cost much so I’ll get you a new one” he was glad that he wasn’t in trouble for breaking an expensive smart phone. Since then he’s happily stuck to just texting: doesn’t even want a smart phone for 11th birthday.

My son's school makes it clear that it will not engage in disputes that happen outside school where the SM is higher age than the child in question.

In the UK it's 16.

I actually think that if parents allow children on apps underage and something bad results from that then the parents are liable. They have the capability to protect their children and are failing to do so. The inability of parents to parent effectively online astounds me. You are responsible for their safety. It's that simple.

My children used WhatsApp to video message. We didn’t have a monitor, as my only laptop was a work one.

My dd is autistic and finds video calls to difficult and much prefers text, but I get that video is better go neurotypical children.

OP, teacher here too and I agree!

My DD only has a phone at the start of Yr 7 due to travel but we would have so many letters/communication from her primary head about class whatsapp groups. My DD never felt left out because she didn’t have a phone - she has many friendship groups due to lots of different extra curricular. My son is Yr 4 - there are children in his class with phones.

My teacher friends never let their children have phones until high school because we know how toxic social media is. You can’t escape the drama. Children should be spending hours on a screen. Such a miserable existence.

My children have never been bullied or been involved in any friendship issues. I’m sure it’s because they are out of the social media drama.

I think there's been a misunderstanding @MissDollyMix as I asked "Does the local High School ask the pupils to download social media apps that are age restricted?" and your first word in reply was "Yes"

Perhaps you could clarify?

(My issue is primary aged children using social media, which for many children that age causes issues as they are not emotionally mature enough to deal with this kind of interaction - not high schools using online portals to access work, which is different.)

@TorviShieldMaiden

One set of children I had to sit down with this week and unpick the social media messages and resulting fall out included autistic children who really struggled with this kind of interaction - they felt isolated because they didn't understand the subtleties of reading between the lines, were taking things literally and reacting, and there seems little support from parents to help them navigate this. Some parents, being neurodivergent themselves, are struggling too with this kind of interaction but they don't want their kids to miss out so let them access it.

Far better for kids to learn how to interact in person and be supported to do so, which we do at my school, but we can't support these vulnerable children on social media, neither would we recommend it. It's too much of a minefield for them. It's very important too that autistic kids have down time away from all this to process and have that safe space at home, but they can't do that if on social media.

Smart phones for kids is a cancer.

They should be illegal under 16, and licence and registration required under 25

I'm amazed what some parents allow, either naive or stupid or jist want an easy life so allow it rsther than hard parenting. Very sad.

@Bucketheadbucketbum that's just ridiculous!

My kids got phones from year 7. We live rurally- there is very little phone reception and we don't have a landline. I let them have WhatsApp so I can contact them- it's incredibly useful. They all know I can check their phones whenever I like- they have to agree before they get a phone.

They make their own way to/from school and having a phone means they can contact me if necessary. When I was a kids there were phone boxes- no they have defibrillators instead of phones in them.

All phones downstairs before bedtime- so no phone use late at night.

I completely agree. I'm a teacher like the OP & it astonishes me just just how much my non teacher friends allow their children to go on phones. It's scary as hell - so many parents don't understand the damage that can be caused and exactly what they're opening their children up to. Smartphones are really not great for children

Family link only works if you all have the same type of device. In my family we have some Apple, some android, PCs and Chromebooks. Nightmare.

We also operate those devices on a combination of wifi and mobile (paid) data.

If anyone has a solution I'm all ears.

Any windows device can be controlled with Microsoft family safety. Family link should work on a Chromebook. Don't know about Apple products. The way you connect makes no difference, it's not based on provider, it's full control of the child profile that is linked to your profile. I know someone will come along in a minute and tell me something about how they can still access Twitter etc. It can be set up to authorise every website, link and app, rather than just some ineffective content filter from the ISP. But yeah obviously not giving them devices is the best way of ensuring they do something more useful with their childhoods!

The fall out from this happens even for children whose parents don't allow them to have phones in year 5/6!

My nephew (my sisters son) doesn't have a phone. He's Y6. My sister has had to go into school several times because of whatapp bullying where children are being vile about her son in the children's group chat. Things like planning to 'have a go' at him in the playground the next day, one boy egging the others on to not speak to him or sit with him, and exclude him from the lunchtime football match, etc etc etc. She became aware on each occasion as one of the children who was part of this group showed his mum, and the mum sent a screenshot of it to my sister as a 'you should be aware that this is being said' sort of thing.

So even by stopping your own child from accessing this - it still gets to them! And yes, as OP said it has to be sorted out by the school.

No children under secondary school age should have access to social media, messaging services etc, IMO. I'd go so far as to say Y7 too. Unless a child is regularly travelling alone I see no reason for them to have a phone prior to secondary school at all. Mine will not be!

Apple has the same, you can set all apps to requests, set down time, block numbers, check webpages etc all from your own phone.

My DD has it to keep in touch with relatives and friends. I have filters , blockers, time limits and inspect the phone very regularly. Shutting off all things will mean a big shock. It's about teaching responsible use. To be honest kids know loads my DD was saying one of the kids in class called their sport teams the 69ers 😳 and one called himself a sugar daddy. I asked her did she know what it meant and she said yes.

I think it's important to educate my DD is incredibly open with me. Late primary seem to know roo much already.

That's another huge problem because kids say they know what 69, Sugar Daddy etc means but they are just parroting what they have heard elsewhere; they are not emotionally able to actually understand what it means and neither should they because it makes them vulnerable. As a teacher I can tell this because they get very silly when we do sex ed - the questions that they ask show that a lot of things they say they 'know' are in fact rumour and inaccurate because "Miss, it says so on TikTok/YouTube!"

She did because she repeated exactly what a sugar daddy is an old man who younger women kiss in exchange for gifts and money 😳😳.

@poshme

Look up the functional mri results of children given access to smart phones. Terrifying.

Sounds like you think DC need emergency phone access- pager / walkie talkie (can range 20k) / old school non smart phones all options, but no-one wants to hear it

If you convince yourself it's necessary under faux principles don't have to feel guilty about bringing it into their lives